Ceramic crowns eventually needing root canal/extraction?

#13 01-30-2008, 04:20 AM

On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 18:09:17 -0500, "Robert" <guyinct17[at]ya_hoo.com>
wrote:

- quote -

> "Steven Bornfeld" wrote in message
> news:13pv5lppme0cm13[at]corp.supernews.com...
> > Number one: Just what kind of questions WERE you asking? ;-)
> > and, secondly: What is this grapevine--he's speaking about one patient
> > (you) to a second patient? Not very professional.
>
> Barely got to the point of asking questions. Wanted to talk about any safety
> issues with root canal.

Try www.aae.org
- quote -

>
> No, not to another patient. The person recommending him was an oral surgeon
> I knew.
>
>

#12 01-29-2008, 10:09 PM

"Steven Bornfeld" wrote in message
news:13pv5lppme0cm13[at]corp.supernews.com...
- quote -

> Number one: Just what kind of questions WERE you asking? ;-)
> and, secondly: What is this grapevine--he's speaking about one patient
> (you) to a second patient? Not very professional.

Barely got to the point of asking questions. Wanted to talk about any safety
issues with root canal.

No, not to another patient. The person recommending him was an oral surgeon
I knew.

#11 01-29-2008, 08:12 PM

Robert wrote:
- quote -

> "Mark & Steven Bornfeld" wrote in message
> news:3nHnj.5476$z_6.701[at]trnddc06...
> > I think that is most unfair. There are demonstrable changes in dental
> > techniques based on accumulated clinical experience and new research in
>
> You are right, I was being unfair. There are a bunch of real stand up docs
> on this board. But also, notice I was commenting on the holistic folks too.
>
> I had a recent experience where I tried asking questions of a new dentist I
> was considering using. I heard through the grapevine (from the person who
> recommended him) that he didn't like that at all and "wasn't taking new
> patients."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Number one: Just what kind of questions WERE you asking? ;-)

and, secondly: What is this grapevine--he's speaking about one patient
(you) to a second patient? Not very professional.

Steve

#10 01-29-2008, 08:01 PM

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" wrote in message
news:3nHnj.5476$z_6.701[at]trnddc06...
- quote -

> I think that is most unfair. There are demonstrable changes in dental
> techniques based on accumulated clinical experience and new research in

You are right, I was being unfair. There are a bunch of real stand up docs
on this board. But also, notice I was commenting on the holistic folks too.

I had a recent experience where I tried asking questions of a new dentist I
was considering using. I heard through the grapevine (from the person who
recommended him) that he didn't like that at all and "wasn't taking new
patients."

#9 01-29-2008, 02:39 PM

About two years ago?

Dr. Meinig graduated from dental school in 1937 and based his
book on 'research' by Dr. Price in the 1920's.

No modern endo therapy there.

D

About two
- quote -

> > years ago, having recently retired, he decided to read all 1174 pages
> > of the detailed research of Dr. Weston Price, (D.D.S). Dr. Meinig was
> > startled and shocked. Here was valid documentation of systemic
> > illnesses resulting from latent infections lingering in filled roots.
> > He has since written a book, "Root Canal Cover-Up EXPOSED - Many
> > Illnesses Result", and is devoting himself to radio, TV, and personal
> > appearances before groups in an attempt to blow the whistle and alert
> > the public.
> >

#8 01-29-2008, 02:11 PM

Robert wrote:
- quote -

> "Matt" <matt[at]themattfella.zzzz.com> wrote in message
> news:8lwnj.3037$7d1.65[at]news01.roc.ny...
> > Robert wrote:
> >
> > You might want to consider the following if you haven't seen it before.
> > I'm not trying to set anybody off, but I would be grateful for any
> > reasonable discussion about it.
> >
> > http://rheumatic.org/teeth.htm
> >
>
> If you want reasonable discussion about it, you've come to the wrong place
>

There is growing concern in some quarters on the long term health
> effects of root canals. The holistic people tend to make wild claims that
> sound very reasonable but have little science backing them up. And the
> regular dental industry takes the stance of what we don't know wont hurt us.
> So you are more or less on your own in this area.
>
>
>

I think that is most unfair. There are demonstrable changes in dental
techniques based on accumulated clinical experience and new research in
just about every area of dentistry. As far as bacteria seeping into the
system from root canals or other dental procedures, bacteremia secondary
to dental treatment has been studied for many years. Most of the known
sequellae have been demonstrated from surgical procedures. Here we are
generally following the recommendations of the American Heart
Association, who continue to update their recommendations for treating
patients with various cardiac maladies. The other area of concern is
with prosthetic orthopedics, and they generally piggy-back on the AHA
recommendations.
There is no question that bacteria enter the dentinal tubules, and that
there always exists the theoretical risk of seeding bacteria into the
circulation. In fact, the much greater risk seems to be periodontal
disease, in which the hematogenous spread is directly into the
bloodstream. Of course, periodontal bacteria also infect the dentin,
and this has been demonstrated. I don't know if Dr. Meinig had any
objections to periodontally-involved teeth, but there is no doubt in my
mind that even in clinically healthy mouths, oral bacteria will enter
any exposed dentin and cementum. They also enter the body through
extraoral injury, food, drink, bodily contact, respiration. Some of
these challenges are well-tolerated by the healthy patient--some are not.
There are root canals that are successful; one could argue about the
criteria for success. But Meinig is very, very old news. The surgeons
would probably not mind if his ideas became popular again; it would help
the implant business. It wouldn't hurt the restorative dentists either.
I'm not too worried about the endodontists though; these hoary ideas
have been discredited very long ago. It becomes tiresome fighting the
same old fights. Of course, patients may choose to extract their teeth.
This is after all an elective procedure.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

#7 01-29-2008, 05:33 AM

"Matt" <matt[at]themattfella.zzzz.com> wrote in message
news:8lwnj.3037$7d1.65[at]news01.roc.ny...
- quote -

> Robert wrote:
>
> You might want to consider the following if you haven't seen it before.
> I'm not trying to set anybody off, but I would be grateful for any
> reasonable discussion about it.
>
> http://rheumatic.org/teeth.htm
>

If you want reasonable discussion about it, you've come to the wrong place

There is growing concern in some quarters on the long term health
effects of root canals. The holistic people tend to make wild claims that
sound very reasonable but have little science backing them up. And the
regular dental industry takes the stance of what we don't know wont hurt us.
So you are more or less on your own in this area.

#6 01-29-2008, 01:39 AM

Robert wrote:

- quote -

> Two of the teeth are likely to need RCT just a few months after
> crowning.

You might want to consider the following if you haven't seen it before.
I'm not trying to set anybody off, but I would be grateful for any
reasonable discussion about it.

http://rheumatic.org/teeth.htm

- quote -

> Dr. Meinig brings a most curious perspective to an expose of latent dangers of root canal therapy - fifty years ago he was one of the founders of the American Association of Endodontists (root canal specialists)! So he's filled his share of root canals. And when he wasn't filling canals himself, he was teaching the technique to dentists across the country at weekend seminars and clinics. About two years ago, having recently retired, he decided to read all 1174 pages of the detailed research of Dr. Weston Price, (D.D.S). Dr. Meinig was startled and shocked. Here was valid documentation of systemic illnesses resulting from latent infections lingering in filled roots. He has since written a book, "Root Canal Cover-Up EXPOSED - Many Illnesses Result", and is devoting himself to radio, TV, and personal appearances before groups in an attempt to blow the whistle and alert the public.
>

#5 01-16-2008, 01:46 AM

Sounds about right to me.

On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 07:59:18 -0500, "Amatus Cremona"
<Nicola[at]sottovocce.com> wrote:

- quote -

> There was a reasonable study a few years back that gave a statistic of 4%.
>
> --
> /
>
> Amatus
>
> /
> "Robert" <guyinct17[at]yahooy.com> wrote in message
> news:478c6388$0$9108$607ed4bc[at]cv.net...
> > Does anyone know the percentage of crowned teeth (ceramic) that eventually
> > end up needing root canal or extraction? Have there ever been any
> > studies/research done? My guess is that it is a high percentage.
> >
>

#4 01-16-2008, 01:45 AM

On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 07:24:39 -0500, "Robert" <guyinct17[at]yahooy.com>
wrote:

- quote -

> Does anyone know the percentage of crowned teeth (ceramic) that eventually
> end up needing root canal or extraction? Have there ever been any
> studies/research done? My guess is that it is a high percentage.
>
No it is relatively low.

#3 01-15-2008, 10:07 PM

Robert wrote:
- quote -

> >
>
> I think that many are not as ethical as you and the rest of the pros on this
> list. Kudos to you. My dentist told me nothing about nothing before doing
> the work. I found out all the "should haves" afterwards by doing my own
> research. Two of the teeth are likely to need RCT just a few months after
> crowning.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Well, as a dentist you should try to anticipate problems. Still, even
after almost 32 years unexpected things happen. The more often
unexpected things happen, the more you have to figure some of them
shudda been expected (and discussed).

Steve

#2 01-15-2008, 09:20 PM

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" wrote in message
news:7J4jj.2807$YW6.153[at]trndny07...
- quote -

> Robert wrote:
> > Does anyone know the percentage of crowned teeth (ceramic) that
> > eventually end up needing root canal or extraction? Have there ever been
> > any studies/research done? My guess is that it is a high percentage.
> A study of this type would be of little use in a particular situation. If
> a given dentist had a high failure rate, it might say something about that
> dentist's skill and/or judgment.
> I am now doing a crown on a woman who I told before we started that the
> tooth is weak and the prognosis would have to be considered guarded. As
> long as she has the information about the prognosis and the alternative
> treatments, I have no problem crowning this tooth for her.
> OTOH if I thought it might fail in 6 months I would not consider this a
> reasonable treatment option.
>

I think that many are not as ethical as you and the rest of the pros on this
list. Kudos to you. My dentist told me nothing about nothing before doing
the work. I found out all the "should haves" afterwards by doing my own
research. Two of the teeth are likely to need RCT just a few months after
crowning.

#1 01-15-2008, 02:56 PM

Robert wrote:
- quote -

> Does anyone know the percentage of crowned teeth (ceramic) that eventually
> end up needing root canal or extraction? Have there ever been any
> studies/research done? My guess is that it is a high percentage.
>
>

A study of this type would be of little use in a particular situation.
If a given dentist had a high failure rate, it might say something
about that dentist's skill and/or judgment.
I am now doing a crown on a woman who I told before we started that the
tooth is weak and the prognosis would have to be considered guarded. As
long as she has the information about the prognosis and the alternative
treatments, I have no problem crowning this tooth for her.
OTOH if I thought it might fail in 6 months I would not consider this a
reasonable treatment option.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

01-15-2008, 11:59 AM

There was a reasonable study a few years back that gave a statistic of 4%.

--
/

Amatus

/
"Robert" <guyinct17[at]yahooy.com> wrote in message
news:478c6388$0$9108$607ed4bc[at]cv.net...
- quote -

> Does anyone know the percentage of crowned teeth (ceramic) that eventually
> end up needing root canal or extraction? Have there ever been any
> studies/research done? My guess is that it is a high percentage.
>

#-1 01-15-2008, 11:24 AM

Does anyone know the percentage of crowned teeth (ceramic) that eventually
end up needing root canal or extraction? Have there ever been any
studies/research done? My guess is that it is a high percentage.

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