Answering Machine In Mental Hospital - Page 2

#**105** 10-20-2004, 12:06 AM

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:01:16 GMT, "carabelli"
<huerter[at]worldnet.att.net> wrote:

- quote -

>
> "W_B" <no_one[at]nowhere.net> wrote ..........
>
> > >
> > Dunno about that. Got rather good at them.
> > Direct gold was fun to do with a certain master dentist professor
> > we had.
> >
> > Used to be required in the CA board exam.
> >
> > Only have done one since graduation, and it was on a fellow dentist.
> > --
> >
> > W_B
>
> Goldent (sp?) was required for the Central Regional Boards in '79. Small
> pellets that you would heat over an open flame, let them cool and then
> condense. I'm certain is was probably less technique sensitive than foil -
> but that's what we had to do.

In my father's day. they had goil foil sheets!

Like that used for picture frames!

They manipulated it with ivory knives ........ folding it and rolling
it into ropes. You cannot touch it with your fingers. It will
contaminate it and prevent the 24K gold from melding ....

Joel

- quote -

>
> I had an expanded duties assistant for that part of the board and she had
> her father in for a Class V on a cuspid for the direct gold restoration (got
> lucky - best asst. on the clinic floor). Got the barely undercut prep
> approved and placed the gold. Look pretty good until the examiner got done
> digging at it with a scaler trying to pull it out - ruined half the margins.
> Told me it looked good, reburnish, repolish, and send him home after one
> final look-see. A half hour later I gave it one last blast with the air
> syringe and that's when it when on the floor never to be seen again.
>
> Got to do the whole thing over (didn't ask permission but I'm sure they
> would have preferred he went home with a filling), but not after putting in
> some more undercut. I believe I was told I would need to work a little
> faster at finishing a restoration when I started practicing.
>
> What a fun day. Still remember other applicants being extorted at the last
> second by their patients demanding a C-note or they were leaving (which
> meant you had about 1 minute to find an approved patient to work on or you
> flunked).
>
>
> carabelli
>

#**104** 10-20-2004, 12:01 AM

"W_B" <no_one[at]nowhere.net> wrote ..........

- quote -

> >
> Dunno about that. Got rather good at them.
> Direct gold was fun to do with a certain master dentist professor
> we had.
>
> Used to be required in the CA board exam.
>
> Only have done one since graduation, and it was on a fellow dentist.
> --
>
> W_B

Goldent (sp?) was required for the Central Regional Boards in '79. Small
pellets that you would heat over an open flame, let them cool and then
condense. I'm certain is was probably less technique sensitive than foil -
but that's what we had to do.

I had an expanded duties assistant for that part of the board and she had
her father in for a Class V on a cuspid for the direct gold restoration (got
lucky - best asst. on the clinic floor). Got the barely undercut prep
approved and placed the gold. Look pretty good until the examiner got done
digging at it with a scaler trying to pull it out - ruined half the margins.
Told me it looked good, reburnish, repolish, and send him home after one
final look-see. A half hour later I gave it one last blast with the air
syringe and that's when it when on the floor never to be seen again.

Got to do the whole thing over (didn't ask permission but I'm sure they
would have preferred he went home with a filling), but not after putting in
some more undercut. I believe I was told I would need to work a little
faster at finishing a restoration when I started practicing.

What a fun day. Still remember other applicants being extorted at the last
second by their patients demanding a C-note or they were leaving (which
meant you had about 1 minute to find an approved patient to work on or you
flunked).

carabelli

#**103** 10-20-2004, 12:00 AM

Roy Brown <roybrown[at]sympatico.DotSeaEh> wrote:

- quote -

> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To some a flash of gold, emulating a
> 3/4 crown or class V inlay, creates the illusion of wealth and natural
> teeth.
> --

True: In India that was the norm... maybe still is
SP
--
Not a real Addy, yet

#**102** 10-19-2004, 11:18 PM

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:28:05 GMT, W_B <no_one[at]nowhere.net> wrote:

- quote -

> On 19 Oct 2004 21:35:31 GMT, advocate147[at]aol.com (Advocate147) wrote:
>
> > Maybe I have it wrong. What is meant by direct gold. I was thinking it is
> > cast gold for the missing part of the tooth.
> > Why wouldn't that still be done.
> >
> > Gail
>
>
> Direct gold is 24K cohesive gold packed directly into the prepared tooth.
> Very time consuming, becoming a lost art.
> Cost prohibitive today, would have to charge on the order of $600-800/hour
> with no prediction of how long it would take.
>
> Remember this is for a filling !

YUP you step out of the room to check prophy patient and when you come
back, the rubber dam popped off and the patient is licking the half
done gold foil.

Joel

- quote -

>
> I must say that have seen some last 60+ years though.
> Rolls-Royce dentistry.

#**101** 10-19-2004, 11:16 PM

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:54:28 GMT, W_B <no_one[at]nowhere.net> wrote:

- quote -

> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:16:48 -0400, Joel M. Eichen <joeleichen[at]yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:43:00 GMT, "Dr Steve" <nospam[at]home.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Nope. No gold foils in my history.
> > >
> > > In dental school the only gold inlays I did were for the mock boards and the
> > > actual board exam. I spent most of my senior year of DS at Detroit
> > > Receiving Hospital in the dental clinic. A Mini-Residency sort of thing.
> >
> > Gold foil is kind of a good thing ...... they are so incredibly hard
> > to do that once you graduate, you are eternally grateful!
> >
> > Joel
> >
> >
> Dunno about that. Got rather good at them.

OK then you get to do the DO on the upper third molar .....

- quote -

> Direct gold was fun to do with a certain master dentist professor
> we had.
>
> Used to be required in the CA board exam.
>
> Only have done one since graduation, and it was on a fellow dentist.

#**100** 10-19-2004, 11:01 PM

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:27:04 GMT, Adenosine <adeno[at]nospam4u.org> wrote:

- quote -

> > Joel
>
> I almost went for gold on my crown on #9, but I figured that while it
> may earn me respect in the 'hood, most of our clients wouldn't be so
> down with the bling.
>
> Adenosine

Did one on a #10 a couple of years ago that had a diamond mounted in it.

That dude was 'sparked out' to the max... (all upper anteriors gold)
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG[at]RBAGEyahoo.com

#99 10-19-2004, 10:56 PM

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:19:02 -0400, Joel M. Eichen <joeleichen[at]yahoo.com> wrote:

- quote -

> On 19 Oct 2004 21:35:31 GMT, advocate147[at]aol.com (Advocate147) wrote:
>
> > Maybe I have it wrong. What is meant by direct gold. I was thinking it is
> > cast gold for the missing part of the tooth.
> > Why wouldn't that still be done.
> >
> > Gail
>
> Cast gold = indirect gold =inlay = cerre perdu technique (lost wax
> technique)
>
> Direct = gold foil hammered into place.
>
> By the way it is universally agreed to be the best restoration.
>
> I have seen some seventy or eighty years old and just as good as the
> day they were installed during the 1920s.
>
> Joel
>
Yeah it's an amazing thing to behold.

Lost art.
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG[at]RBAGEyahoo.com

#98 10-19-2004, 10:54 PM

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:16:48 -0400, Joel M. Eichen <joeleichen[at]yahoo.com> wrote:

- quote -

> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:43:00 GMT, "Dr Steve" <nospam[at]home.net> wrote:
>
> > Nope. No gold foils in my history.
> >
> > In dental school the only gold inlays I did were for the mock boards and the
> > actual board exam. I spent most of my senior year of DS at Detroit
> > Receiving Hospital in the dental clinic. A Mini-Residency sort of thing.
>
> Gold foil is kind of a good thing ...... they are so incredibly hard
> to do that once you graduate, you are eternally grateful!
>
> Joel
>
>
Dunno about that. Got rather good at them.

Direct gold was fun to do with a certain master dentist professor
we had.

Used to be required in the CA board exam.

Only have done one since graduation, and it was on a fellow dentist.
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG[at]RBAGEyahoo.com

#97 10-19-2004, 10:50 PM

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:13:23 -0400, Joel M. Eichen <joeleichen[at]yahoo.com> wrote:

- quote -

> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:31:38 GMT, W_B <no_one[at]nowhere.net> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:55:58 -0400, Joel M. Eichen <joeleichen[at]yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > They are custom ordered, and non returnable, and cost per unit.
> > >
> > > How much are Masels these days? I used to pay $2 (two bucks). I gave
> > > them to the patient for free (two per patient) only if they did not
> > > miss any denture appointments.
> > >
> > > Joel
> > >
> >
> > Gee Joel, I think they are about $105 each, my cost.
>
> This must be a different product ..... I will try to look it up ...
>
> Joel
>
> The old ones were kinda plated ...... a little cheezy.
>
Am using a 22K product, it's so thin that if you touched it with a diamond bur

you would go right through the gold. The coping is formed over a white
acrylic core, comes in some shades.
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG[at]RBAGEyahoo.com

#96 10-19-2004, 10:28 PM

On 19 Oct 2004 21:35:31 GMT, advocate147[at]aol.com (Advocate147) wrote:

- quote -

> Maybe I have it wrong. What is meant by direct gold. I was thinking it is
> cast gold for the missing part of the tooth.
> Why wouldn't that still be done.
>
> Gail

Direct gold is 24K cohesive gold packed directly into the prepared tooth.
Very time consuming, becoming a lost art.
Cost prohibitive today, would have to charge on the order of $600-800/hour
with no prediction of how long it would take.

Remember this is for a filling !

I must say that have seen some last 60+ years though.
Rolls-Royce dentistry.

--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG[at]RBAGEyahoo.com

#95 10-19-2004, 10:27 PM

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:20:51 -0400, Joel M. Eichen
<joeleichen[at]yahoo.com> wrote:

- quote -

> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:57:06 GMT, Adenosine <adeno[at]nospam4u.org>
> wrote:
>
> > On 19 Oct 2004 20:38:58 GMT, advocate147[at]aol.com (Advocate147) wrote:
> >
> > > "What about direct gold?"
> > >
> > > The doctor nixed everything but the crown.
> > > might be too fragile to undertake.
> > > Still pondering at the impossible, so for a more or less solvable problem,
> > > crohns comes to mind.
> > > Gail
> >
> > I am not a dentist... but.....
> >
> > If they can do veneers with porcelain, why can't they do the same
> > thing with gold?
>
> Because all the family members will have to wear sunglasses because of
> all the glare.
>
> Joel

I almost went for gold on my crown on #9, but I figured that while it
may earn me respect in the 'hood, most of our clients wouldn't be so
down with the bling.

Adenosine

#94 10-19-2004, 10:25 PM

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:57:06 GMT, Adenosine <adeno[at]nospam4u.org> wrote:

- quote -

> On 19 Oct 2004 20:38:58 GMT, advocate147[at]aol.com (Advocate147) wrote:
>
> > "What about direct gold?"
> >
> > The doctor nixed everything but the crown.
> > might be too fragile to undertake.
> > Still pondering at the impossible, so for a more or less solvable problem,
> > crohns comes to mind.
> > Gail
>
> I am not a dentist... but.....
>
> If they can do veneers with porcelain, why can't they do the same
> thing with gold? Just prep the tooth as if you were going to do a
> normal cosmetic veneer, and then have the lab cast it in gold?
>
> It's probably more complex than that tho....
>
> Adenosine

Porcelain can be 'bonded' to the tooth; gold cannot.

You could do reverse 3/4 gold crowns I suppose, but why ?
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG[at]RBAGEyahoo.com

#93 10-19-2004, 10:22 PM

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:57:06 GMT, Adenosine <adeno[at]nospam4u.org>
wrote:

- quote -

> On 19 Oct 2004 20:38:58 GMT, advocate147[at]aol.com (Advocate147) wrote:
>
> > "What about direct gold?"
> >
> > The doctor nixed everything but the crown.
> > might be too fragile to undertake.
> > Still pondering at the impossible, so for a more or less solvable problem,
> > crohns comes to mind.
> > Gail
>
> I am not a dentist... but.....
>
> If they can do veneers with porcelain, why can't they do the same
> thing with gold? Just prep the tooth as if you were going to do a
> normal cosmetic veneer, and then have the lab cast it in gold?

Real answer. You can. We used what is called 3/4 crowns as bridge
abutments .......... it is a reverse veneer preparation, however one
needs to cut slots in the side of the tooth so the 3/4 crown will
slide in place and remain there.

Joel

- quote -

>
> It's probably more complex than that tho....
>
> Adenosine

#92 10-19-2004, 10:20 PM

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:57:06 GMT, Adenosine <adeno[at]nospam4u.org>
wrote:

- quote -

> On 19 Oct 2004 20:38:58 GMT, advocate147[at]aol.com (Advocate147) wrote:
>
> > "What about direct gold?"
> >
> > The doctor nixed everything but the crown.
> > might be too fragile to undertake.
> > Still pondering at the impossible, so for a more or less solvable problem,
> > crohns comes to mind.
> > Gail
>
> I am not a dentist... but.....
>
> If they can do veneers with porcelain, why can't they do the same
> thing with gold?

Because all the family members will have to wear sunglasses because of
all the glare.

Joel

- quote -

> Just prep the tooth as if you were going to do a
> normal cosmetic veneer, and then have the lab cast it in gold?

BRIGHT!!!

- quote -

>
> It's probably more complex than that tho....
>
> Adenosine

#91 10-19-2004, 10:19 PM

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:42:56 GMT, Adenosine <adeno[at]nospam4u.org>
wrote:

- quote -

> On 19 Oct 2004 21:35:31 GMT, advocate147[at]aol.com (Advocate147) wrote:
>
> > Maybe I have it wrong. What is meant by direct gold. I was thinking it is
> > cast gold for the missing part of the tooth.
> > Why wouldn't that still be done.
> >
> > Gail
>
> The word 'direct' means that it was fabricated in the mouth. Just like
> your ama^H^H^H composite fillings that you may or may not have. "Back
> in the day" there was another way to do gold besides cast gold -- gold
> foils. I gather that these fillings are hard to do, and doing them
> slightly wrong means that they don't work out well at all.

Mercury fillinmgs are direct. Because mercury is liquid, we just pour
'em in ..... according to Jan Drew anyway.

Joel

- quote -

>
> If you want to know a little more about them:
> http://www.dentaleditors.org/Article...man%20art2.htm
>
> The above article is supposed to be humorous, but it's about the best
> description of what the process actually is that I could find for free
> on the internet. I think dentists are trying to forget they existed as
> it causes them mental trauma.
>
> Adenosine

#90 10-19-2004, 10:19 PM

On 19 Oct 2004 21:35:31 GMT, advocate147[at]aol.com (Advocate147) wrote:

- quote -

> Maybe I have it wrong. What is meant by direct gold. I was thinking it is
> cast gold for the missing part of the tooth.
> Why wouldn't that still be done.
>
> Gail

Cast gold = indirect gold =inlay = cerre perdu technique (lost wax
technique)

Direct = gold foil hammered into place.

By the way it is universally agreed to be the best restoration.

I have seen some seventy or eighty years old and just as good as the
day they were installed during the 1920s.

Joel

#89 10-19-2004, 10:17 PM

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:20:37 GMT, W_B <no_one[at]nowhere.net> wrote:

- quote -

> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:43:00 GMT, "Dr Steve" <nospam[at]home.net> wrote:
>
> > Nope. No gold foils in my history.
> >
> > In dental school the only gold inlays I did were for the mock boards and the
> > actual board exam. I spent most of my senior year of DS at Detroit
> > Receiving Hospital in the dental clinic. A Mini-Residency sort of thing.
>
>
> Direct gold is cost prohibitive today, and just to think of all that pounding
> away with an electro-mallet.... Shudder.... Endo city.

Absolutely!

Bang-Bang.

#88 10-19-2004, 10:16 PM

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:43:00 GMT, "Dr Steve" <nospam[at]home.net> wrote:

- quote -

> Nope. No gold foils in my history.
>
> In dental school the only gold inlays I did were for the mock boards and the
> actual board exam. I spent most of my senior year of DS at Detroit
> Receiving Hospital in the dental clinic. A Mini-Residency sort of thing.

Gold foil is kind of a good thing ...... they are so incredibly hard
to do that once you graduate, you are eternally grateful!

Joel

#87 10-19-2004, 10:15 PM

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:01:34 GMT, Adenosine <adeno[at]nospam4u.org>
wrote:

- quote -

> > It is very efficient.
>
> I hope you didn't do the same thing examining your patients teeth!
>
> j/k
>
> Adenosine

UNfortunately I did. I could diagnose something in seconds .... and
would be right around 90% of the time ... now the other ten percent
......... that's what always slowed me down!

Joel

#86 10-19-2004, 10:14 PM

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:39:08 GMT, "carabelli" <redslaz3[at]att.net.not>
wrote:

- quote -

>
> "W_B" <no_one[at]nowhere.net> wrote in message
> news:ec9dn0559qgvp7dhnp0fsieni2me4jff04[at]4ax.com...
> > On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:55:58 -0400, Joel M. Eichen <joeleichen[at]yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > > They are custom ordered, and non returnable, and cost per unit.
> > >
> > > How much are Masels these days? I used to pay $2 (two bucks). I gave
> > > them to the patient for free (two per patient) only if they did not
> > > miss any denture appointments.
> > >
> > > Joel
> > >
> >
> > Gee Joel, I think they are about $105 each, my cost.
> >
> > --
> >
> > W_B
>
> Joel, you have to pay a little more for the ones that don't turn green.
>
> carabelli

This is true.....

- quote -

>

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