I'm not a doctor and I never heard of decubitis until googling it last
night after your posting.

Your friend may have had a bad reaction to the morphene or to any
antibiotics that they administered. Or maybe they were supposed to give
your friend antibiotics before that type of surgery and didn't.

A few years ago I was taking care of someone too. The doctors prescribed
morphene for her which would have killed her from an allergic reaction if
I hadn't observed it in time and phoned her sister and a different doctor.
None of the nursing staff caught the error.

I noticed when the doctors and staff didn't know what was going on with
her (including her original problem that put her into the hospital), they
seemed like they would have been content to let her die and relegate it to
"natural causes". Even the physical therapist came in to do his little
dance by telling her she had to move around, but whenever she tried to
move she was in excruciating pain. All that he cared about was filling
out his little report that says he prescribed exercise for a patient so he
could pick up his weekly thousand dollar check.

I'm cross-posting this to sci.med.


On Thu, 1 Sep 2005, Bible John wrote:

- quote -

In article <john.doggett-16C5E4.06584102092005[at]news.charter.net> ,
Bible John <john.doggett[at]x-files.gov> wrote:

- quote -

How can he pick up an infection when the sore was closed with a Woundvac
machine?


John

--
BA Church Education Ministries AS Business/IT specialist
CERM-Church Education Resource
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/unbeliever_list.htm
2 Tim 4:2
AIM: Crucifyself03

In article <4QXRe.5565$_84.3099[at]newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net> ,
"David Martel" <marte005[at]earthlink.net> wrote:

- quote -

Friend and caretaker

You
- quote -

No, unskilled caretaker. I got myself a degree in Church Education and
Computers, but have found that jobs in such an area up here are hard to
find. One day I will move to a better economy, but for know am stuck
here. Besides it may help to learn new skills, as I may find a job at a
small baptist Church were I may need to work part time or something. In
very rural areas techy jobs are hard to find, so its wise to learn more
universal skills. Many baptist churches are in areas that are not very
computer savvy. So yes it is wise to learn caretaking or retail skills
for I may be called to a pastor position in such an area.

You offer
- quote -

I have done caretaking before this job. I worked with mentally a
handicapped individual at a church, with an elderly client for a
contracted (not at will) 3 months before returning to school, and
overall have had much exposure to people with disabilities. However
most of my exposure has been with people with learning Disabilities or
other Department of Rehab disabilities. Such clients at DOR are
typically able to care for themselves.

A Dr. also said many wonderful things about me.

http://www.southcoast.net/johnw/bcam...ell_letter.jpg

- quote -

No she contacted me

You
- quote -

I did not blame the hospital. Reread the subject. Its also my freedom
to have such a concern.


- quote -

The sister does not have the time to research nor the savvy that I do.
I am posting here because I came for help.


- quote -

Dont jump to conclusions. The sister contacted me, remember? She gave
me her contact info, and asked me to do the research.


- quote -

I did.


- quote -

--
BA Church Education Ministries AS Business/IT specialist
CERM-Church Education Resource Ministries-http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/unbeliever_list.htm
2 Tim 4:2
AIM: Crucifyself03

In article <YcWdnZ3u2qK_gYXeRVn-vA[at]got.net> ,
"Robert" <Robertitsme[at]hotmail.com> wrote:

- quote -

In my subject I said

"Local hospital may have killed a patient. Need help"

I used the word "may" which is not an objective, but rather subjective
statement.

John

--
BA Church Education Ministries AS Business/IT specialist
CERM-Church Education Resource Ministries-http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/unbeliever_list.htm
2 Tim 4:2
AIM: Crucifyself03

In article <eMTRe.5590$UQ1.3218[at]fe03.lga> ,
Tom McDonald <tmcdonald2672[at]nohormelcharter.net> wrote:

- quote -

Yes thats true. But the doctor I spoke with said he did not die because
of that bedwound. It was the bacteria in his body. How did so much
bacteria get in there so fast? If he had not gone to that hospital, he
probably would have been alive today.
- quote -


I never said I was right. But am suspecting something else, but maybe
Ben died on his own after all without himself being ejected with
anything. To me it seems odd that they would ask his sister many times
for permission to pull the plug.

- quote -


Correct

- quote -

Probably not, but can this be proven? I have yes I have watched shows
on 60 minutes, court TV, and other such channels of people who were
admitted to a hospital, and law enforcement was able to catch a criminal
doctor.


- quote -

How do you know for sure? Most likely you are right, but how do we know
100%?


- quote -

Ben's sister is not very tech savvy. She knows little about computers,
if not technology in general. It would not hurt for her to go buy
herself a tape or digital recorder to carry around and use when the time
is right. Because such a recording may be vital. Ben's sister says
that she heard directly that the hospital staff asked the client if he
wanted to live or die.

(This is very possible, as this sort of thing is
- quote -

You could be right.

- quote -

He was cared for by Interim health care for his bed sore wound, and they
did test blood pressure, among other things. They did not find anything
serious with him.

He also was given a physical like a week before he was admitted and it
went fine. You are right in that a physical does not find everything,
but it should find the basics.


- quote -

Perhaps. I am not a doctor in this field. Thats why I never declared
that I was right in anything. I do have concerns, but my concerns cant
be substantiated.

- quote -

It very well may be. But answer this. How can Ben's poor diet have
caused his dehitration which led to his death? He was a heavy smoker,
and never once got cancer in his 58 years.

- quote -

Thank you for this. I will give this info to his sister.

- quote -

minded to the max. The owners worked me way over 40 hours a week, and
did not once give me medical insurance, and refused to help me get it
when I asked. They also were known to make big car and land purchases.
Perhaps it was my medical insurance that got in the way of the purchase
of a brand knew Lexus.

- quote -

I think I'd be written off as a nut no matter what I say.

- quote -

telling me those agencies. I did not want to have to dig out that video
tape in my tape boxes just to find those agencies. But perhaps out of
curiosity I may do so anyways.

John



<snip>
- quote -

--
BA Church Education Ministries AS Business/IT specialist
CERM-Church Education Resource Ministries-http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/unbeliever_list.htm
2 Tim 4:2
AIM: Crucifyself03

John,

Let's start with the basics. Who are you in relation to the decedent? You
use the term client but don't tell us what services you provided to the
decedent. You mention a caretaker role, are you a trained nurse? You offer
opinions on your client's diet and upon his medical care. Why should anyone
respect your opinions? Provide us with information on your training and
experience.
You wish for some reason to encourage the decedent's family to demand an
investigation into the practices at your client's last hospital, why? You
seem to blame the hospital but don't mention the attending physician, why?
Have you or they notified the appropriate regulatory boards about your
claims or beliefs? Have you encouraged the family to speak with a medical
malpractice attorney? Why are you posting here?
Hospitals and physicians do kill patients but you offer no reason to
believe that your client was such a patient. You offer no explanation of why
you are, at this sorrowful time, attempting to add to the family's troubles
by raising your claims.
So, what are you up to and why are you behaving so inappropriately? You
may raise your issues with the State medical board or the hospital oversight
committee or who ever. You may, if you wish, suggest to the family that they
speak with an attorney.


Good luck,
Dave M.

"Tom McDonald" <tmcdonald2672[at]nohormelcharter.net> wrote in message
news:eMTRe.5590$UQ1.3218[at]fe03.lga...
- quote -

That's correct Tom. I think it is wrong what he has done and said concerning
that case. Nobody has the facts and I think making such outlandish charges
is not acting responsibly.

If he had concerns then they should have been taken care of in a more
responsible manner and not here in this forum.

"Bible John" <john.doggett[at]x-files.gov> wrote in message
news:john.doggett-DEB8A6.22350901092005[at]news.charter.net...
- quote -

The hospital is run by the nuns of the catholic order Sisters of Mercy.

http://fpnetwork.ucdavis.edu/redding/center2.htm



- quote -

Are you saying it was a sister of Mercy Killing?

I think the vatican would be interested in that.

- quote -

You have the right to request or refuse treatment and to ask that
life-prolonging treatment be stopped.

You also have the right to make out an advance directive. An advance
directive is a legal paper which lets you state your wishes about the use of
life support machines and medical treatment. It can also be used to name
someone else to make medical choices for you if you become unable to speak
for yourself.

- quote -

Especially those at catholic hospitals that don't even perform abortions?

- quote -

Really.

- quote -

That must be it. X files.
- quote -

Seriously! Does Church Education Ministries run any hospitals?

Bible John wrote:
- quote -

You don't say what the infection was that killed this poor
fellow. However, you do say that he had a decubitus ulcer, I'm
guessing from being bed- or chair-bound; and that it was serious
enough to need surgical attention.

This means that there was a gaping, open sore which would have
made him susceptible to all sorts of infections. If he didn't
come into the hospital with the infection that killed him, it
isn't at all uncommon for such patients to pick up one of the
infectious agents that is common in hospitals. After all, that's
where the sick people are.

Hospitals try very hard to prevent infections, and have
infection committees that study each case where the etiology of
the infection may have been from inside the hospital. This is
really the only way to improve care, to find where the hospital
needs to improve their infection control and prevention protocols.

It may be that the hospital was negligent. It may also be that
they were not. In any case, please read the following very, very
carefully:

The hospital, its employees and its medical staff did not
intentionally kill your friend.

Read this several times. You seem to be of the opinion that
sinister forces are at work here. They are not, with the possible
exception of the hospital doing a little CYA. That's it.

You have hearsay testimony of a person who says that she heard a
hospital worker (nurse? chaplain? psychologist? social worker?
physician?) ask a patient a question that may or may not have
been "do you want to live, or do you want to die?" We do not
know. It could well have been a hospital social worker asking the
patient if they had a living will, or would like to make out a
living will. (This is very possible, as this sort of thing is
part of the intake process in most hospitals today.) It could
have been a medical person or shrink assessing the mental status
of the patient. It could have been someone checking to see if the
patient had given up hope, in order to bring encouragement to him
to fight for his life.

We do not know. *You* do not know. The thing to do is not to
whip up some paranoid frenzy, going haring off after some Robin
Cook medical drama. The thing to do is to ask the person who
supposedly asked the question what they actually said, and what
they meant.

For the love of all that is holy, please at least try this (for
the mother of the person involved) before you and the mother go
off half-cocked.

As for your client, you say you can testify that he was fine
when he was admitted to the hospital. What tests did you do to
ascertain this? What blood work did you draw and work up? What
radiological tests did you perform? In reality, all you can say
is that, as a layman, your client did not seem ill to you.

You might ask, if you do not know, why your client was taken in
for surgery when he was. With spina bifida, decubitus ulcers are
very common. I would think he had had one for some time before
the hospitalization. So, why then? Perhaps his physician knew
something about his condition that you didn't.

And I will guarantee you that if there was a bag of some sort on
your client's arm, it was there as part of a treatment regimen to
try to improve his health. Your suggestion that the hospital
might have intentionally poisoned him is ludicrous.

As for the X-Files thing, you are thinking of the AMA (American
Medical Association). You would contact the California chapter,
probably called the California Medical Association. You might
also contact the California Department of Justice (or whatever
it's called there--the department headed up by the California
Attorney General). I suspect they have a division that deals with
complaints against hospitals.

You say you were taking care of this fellow part-time. You could
contact the agency that was providing the care-givers, and/or the
local Department of Human Services.

Please, though, if you really want to find out what happened, do
not, repeat do not lead with your paranoid fantasies about
euthanasia, etc. That's pretty much a sure way to be written off
as a nut case, and ignored entirely.

I am sorry for the death of your friend. I'll pray for him, and
for you.

<snip>
--
Tom McDonald
http://ahwhatdoiknow.blogspot.com/

Hi,

Complete Nutrition Guide :-
http://www.medical-health-care-infor...tion/index.asp

Complete Calorie Guide:-
http://www.medical-health-care-infor...nter/index.asp

A former client of mine whom passed away about a month ago went into
Mercy hospital of Redding, CA in good condition with working kidneys to
receive surgery of his decubitus. But after about four days in the
hospital somehow caught enough bacteria to kill him in a matter of weeks
(3-4). The hospital staff in ICU claimed that Ben was overdehitrated,
lacking a good diet and full of bacteria. As Ben's caretaker for 2
months (working 3-5 24/hr shifts a week) I can testify that Ben's
nutritional diet could not have killed him all of a sudden, causing his
liver, and other vital organs to fail so quickly. A bad diet kills over
time, not in such a short time. Yes Ben liked his ice tea, his corn
dogs, his pepsi's and such. But such foods and drinks do not kill so
quickly.

I visited with my client on the Friday of the week he went in and he was
fine. But somehow that same-day night, caught something that made it so
he had to be sedated full of morpheme and on many drugs to keep alive.
Ben was a disabled individual born with Spineabifida.

His sister is very upset over the incident and believes fully that this
hospital murdered her brother. She believes that they pumped him with
something leading to his death. She tells me that the hospital
repeatedly asked for her approval (in the days before his death) to pull
the plug on Ben and say goodnight. She also tells me that she remembers
speaking with a Mortician after Ben's death whom said that this type of
thing happens more frequently around this hospital than one would
expect. We also have the testimony of a mother who witnessed a hospital
worker asking her son (whom was in ICU) if he wanted to live or die.
Unfortunately this was not captured on audiocassette. If we had such a
tape maybe we could prove that the ICU staff is not too concerned about
the welfare of their clients. Why on EARTH would a ICU worker ask a
client if he wanted to live or die, the day he was admitted?

We are really at a loss on what to do. The hospital may be trying to
cover up for a mistake they made, or perhaps felt it necessary to kill
Ben. You do know that some believe disabled people are a menace to
society.

Does anyone have any tips on what we can do in this situation? We have
no documents, tape recordings, or any hard evidence besides our own
eyewitness. I can testify that Ben was just fine when I saw him on the
Friday after he was admitted to the hospital. I do have 2 photos of
Ben, that perhaps a doctor (if there are any on this list) may want to
look at. There is what appears to be a bag of something hanging from
Ben's arm. Perhaps this bag was some sort of bacteria, or perhaps not.

I can email medical professionals the photos privately via email. But
personally it makes no sense how Ben could have gone from completely
normal to near death in a matter of hours that day.

X-files fans. There is one episode in season one where the agents are
investigating a medical professional in San Francisco named Sally
Kendrick whom had some illegal practices. During the episode Scully
mentions several agencies that investigate the medical practices of
hospitals. What was the name of these agencies? I believe it was either
AMA, EMA or something with an MA. Have not seen the episode in 2 years.
Thank you.

We appreciate any help anyone can provide.


John

--
BA Church Education Ministries AS Business/IT specialist
CERM-Church Education Resource Ministries-http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/unbeliever_list.htm
2 Tim 4:2
AIM: Crucifyself03