In article <1133496095.631924.93230[at]g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> ,
Clinton <clintonz[at]prodigy.net> wrote:
- quote -

This woman probably developed Guillain-Barre Syndrome, which can be a
rare complication of microbial infection, including influenza. Even
more rarely, it can be a complication of vaccination. The swine flu
vaccine of thirty years ago was associated with an unusually high rate
of occurrence of GBS. Although the cause isn't known, it may be an
auto-immune condition.

Google returns 595,000 hits for "Guillain-Barre Syndrome". You could
start with www.gbsfi.com.

"Pizza Girl" <PiG[at]yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:1133499074.ad851bc82b9461d22ba012a47ecc7328[at]fe5.teranews.com...
- quote -

Google is a lousy place to get real data. There is too much biased dreck
(like from outfits that have been known to lie to get their "message"
across, often that "message" is to buy their "cure"). Try www.pubmed.gov,
or http://scholar.google.com

Oh, and answer this question: Which is a true statement made by you?....

1)
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...10426ac?hl=en&
which had this:
"But the Polio vaccine was so successful and nobody has had a polio shot
for 30 years now. "

and

2)
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...7ee3eeb?hl=en&
which had this:
"My brother died, arguably, from bad polio vaccine in 2001. "



- quote -

Clinton wrote:
- quote -

I see..so she was vaccinated against pigs and her husband left her.
Sounds right. Anyone who would walk out on a disabled spouse IS a PIG.

- quote -

Pizza Girl wrote:
- quote -

HCN was asking about your 100% contradiction of yourself. You neglected
to respond.

If I had made those two statements, NetMommy JD would be calling me a liar.

- quote -

From the first three pages, it is clear that the hits are regarding a
few cases, some under questionable circumstances. No one has ever
claimed that the Smallpox and Antghrax vaccines are 100% safe, but they
sure do beat the disease.

- quote -

Mr-Natural-Health wrote:
- quote -

So what? You are deficient in intracranial grey matter, where the sole
functioning cell plays with itself.

- quote -

Aren't you the lazy asshole that gets excited about
everything and wants to be spoon fed?

Now tell us how all those reports are lies.

Here is 50 hits of 782,000

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=...ne+death&meta=


"HCN" <hcn[at]nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Gp-dnZ5nzdiTWRLeRVn-rA[at]comcast.com...
- quote -

Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com wrote:
- quote -

IIRC someone in my family knew a lady who had gotten a pig flu
vaccination
or something and then was paralyzed. Apparently her husband then left
her.
Imagine that , getting a flu shot and then having your husband leave
you.
Now I wonder if the immune system can have the same type of over
response
to the vaccine as the pathogen which might explain the reaction to the
shot?

"Pizza Girl" <PiG[at]yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:1133492681.11a80ca3394d0e8c045acc711477dca3[at]fe5.teranews.com...
- quote -

Do you have a reference or evidence for that statement?

Oh, wait... aren't you the person who posted in the SAME thread these two
statements?

1)
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...10426ac?hl=en&
which had this:
"But the Polio vaccine was so successful and nobody has had a polio shot
for 30 years now. "

and

2)
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...7ee3eeb?hl=en&
which had this:
"My brother died, arguably, from bad polio vaccine in 2001. "

Do you just make it up as you go along, or do you have to take lessons... or
(just to be nicer), do you have problems with your memory?

- quote -

Then there was a few US soldiers trhat just died from
the vaccines.

<bae[at]cs.toronto.no-uce.edu> wrote in message
news:2005Dec1.205000.13153[at]jarvis.cs.toronto.edu...
- quote -

In article <1133475584.400971.68450[at]g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> ,
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com <sbharris[at]ix.netcom.com> wrote:
- quote -

Hi, Steve. The context was the deaths of recruits of "swine flu" at
Fort Dix 30 years ago. A poster implied that recruits get a lot of
vaccinations, and that would explain why they'd die of mere flu,
despite being young and healthy, because vaccination is evil and
destroys people.

I pointed out that it's not all that uncommon for recruits to die of
what you call the stupidities associated with training. Without
evidence, I asserted that it seems to me that if people are being
pushed past their limits, to the point where some die of it, a person
who has a bad case of flu, with a high fever and other characteristic
symptoms, is going to be more vulnerable to the bad effects of
dehydration, exhaustion and "training stress" than they would if they
weren't sick with the flu. I implied that I found this to be a more
likely explanation of the deaths of recruits from swine flu than that
they had been injured by unrelated vaccines.

The swine flu of 30 years ago didn't go on to become a pandemic like
the one of 1918-20, for the good reasons not understood at the time
that you explained in a previous post. But those few soldiers did die
of it, and tens of thousands of elderly and otherwise vulnerable people
die of seasonal flu annually. My offhand and ignorant hypothesis is
that it may have been fatal for them, despite their youth and health,
due to the conditions they lived under, which might be regarded as
abuse and neglect under other circumstances. Please let me know if
this sounds unreasonable to you, or if you have more information
about those deaths at Fort Dix.

Not me!

I am NOT deficient in Vitamin A, nor Zinc.

Just thought that you might want to rethink your health choiceis.

Rich wrote:
- quote -

'67-'70...

"Mark Probert" <markprobert[at]lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:KpLjf.31303$Un7.9072[at]fe12.lga...
- quote -

USAF August 1965.

--Rich

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
- quote -

There was Nurse "Brunhilda" in Camp Zama Japan who called that
"treatment". She was really fun for vital signs times...all rectal temps...

Rich wrote:
- quote -

IIRC, the Army was screening for Sicle Cell Disease in 1967. Were you in
the Army Air Force?

bae[at]cs.toronto.no-uce.edu wrote:
- quote -

Very true. In basic training, anyone seeking to go on sick call wound up
pulling KP, or worse, the following day. When I was at LZ English in
Vietnam, I witnessed one fellow who had the entire side of his face so
severely swollen that he could not open his eye. I asked him what was
wrong, and he told me that his platoon leader would have him dumping
cans at the latrine for a week if he asked to see a dentist for his
infected teeth. Since his 2LT could not touch me like that, I reported
it to the battalion CO, who had the guy taken to the 8th Field Hospital
for treatment. The 2LT never made 1LT, and I beleive that he met Mr. M26
one night.

see this page for Mr. M26 pic:
http://www.angelfire.com/nt/57pipesanddrums/m26.html

- quote -

Agreed. Saw it happen.

Per bae[at]cs.toronto.no-uce.edu:
- quote -

when I was in Basic Training, we had three guys die for no apparent reason at
all - although I'd venture that doing hand-clap pushups in 100+ degree temps and
who-knows-how-high humidity might have had a teeny little role.

Also, when people were sick, the treatment wasn't all that wonderful. One guy,
reputed to have jaundice (hot, feverish, noticeably yellow) wound up getting
thrown down a flight of stairs by the so-called medics because he couldn't get
out of bed and they sure as hell weren't " gonna carry your malingering ass down
them stairs....".
--
PeteCresswell

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
- quote -


COMMENT:


There are many stupidities associated with the training in military
basic training, not least of which is failing to account for the fact
that men start out in very different states of aerobic fitness, and
there's no point at all in driving every person past their training
limit. It's simply not true that the harder any given person trains,
the faster they progress. For every person there's a well-understood
limit, which any exercise physiologist can approximately define for you
in terms of heart rate, acidosis, and maximal oxygen consumption.

That being said, it's impossible to eliminate sudden death and heat
stroke in all situations in which groups of people are training hard.
Sudden deaths in spring-training camps in professional sports are
well-known, and they're not all drug-related, even though we all like
to find a villain.

THAT being said, the 1918 flu virus deaths spread very well in military
camps due to the close communal sleeping conditions, BUT they continued
to have a predilection for young adults after moving to the cities, and
the "Spanish Flu" killed young women about as easily as young men. You
don't have to be Albert Einstein to see that this pretty much
eliminates any condition associated with military-training, or physical
training stress, as a contributing cause to the odd epidemiology of
this epidemic .

The idea that the ordinary flu can be deadly in a young man training
very hard, whereas the same person would do fine otherwise, sounds
reasonable on the face of it. Except I know of no evidence for it, and
it stands as a simple assertion without factual basis. The doctors
doing the autopsies of these flu victims weren't stupid. The avian flu
fills up the lungs with a rapid autoimmune exudative fluid and you
drown. It doesn't look at all like heat stroke or whatever it is that
kills training recruits. Nor is there any particular reason why hard
physical training should make people have an exaggerated immune
reaction to a virus in the lungs. If anything, the opposite should be
the case.

The behavior of the 1918 flu in the cities once it left the military
bases, confirms this idea.

SBH

<bae[at]cs.toronto.no-uce.edu> wrote in message
news:2005Dec1.092555.2277[at]jarvis.cs.toronto.edu...
- quote -

It sounds like you've been there, too. When I was in basic training in the
Air Force, an Airman in our company dropped dead on the PT field. The Air
Force never told us what happened, but a friend in the same barracks that
came from his hometown later learned he supposedly died of sickle crisis. I
would guess that the induction physical now includes screening for sickle
cell.
--


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

- quote -

In article <u5rjf.84321$QM5.51584[at]tornado.socal.rr.com> ,
Rich <joshew[at]hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
- quote -

Whenever you put a lot of people together, sleeping in the same rooms,
eating from the same kitchen and using the same sanitary facilities,
you are setting things up to encourage the rapid spread of contagious
disease, the more so when you put them under substantial physical and
psychological stress.

As for why young soldiers in training sometimes die of these diseases
that might otherwise just give them a week or two of feeling miserable,
there are social and psychological factors involved. We occasionally
hear of young healthy soldiers dropping dead of dehydration, heat
stroke, or even exhaustion. There's immense peer pressure on these
young men, as well as pressure from the authorities over them, so
they'll push themselves beyond what any reasonable person would do in
order to "not be a wimp" or "not let their buddies down". Not only may
a sick recruit not admit it, but if he asks for medical attention, or
even a break, he may be refused, talked out of it, accused of
malingering, or even punished for it, until he drops, or even drops
dead. Often his buddies, who have no more perspective or common sense
than any other teenage boy determined to prove himself real tough man,
will cover for him until he practically dies in their arms.

A bad case of flu is usually just a bad case of flu in a young healthy
person, if he's allowed to take care of himself. The same case of flu
can be fatal when combined with extreme exertion, dehydration,
exhaustion and other characteristics of a recruit's life.

At any rate, inquests into what caused the collapse and death of a
recruit in training usually show the above pattern. Then there are
recommendations made that these boys shouldn't be brainwashed to the
point where they'll die rather than admit weakness, and their trainers
shouldn't drive them to their deaths this way. Then it's back to
business as usual, until the next incident.