Max C. wrote:
- quote -

BullShit!

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/diet.htm
"Fats and Oil
There were also a number of different oils and fat used in the
preparation of food. We know of beef, goat and other fats, and the
Egyptian language had 21 different names for vegetable oils obtained
from sesame, caster-oil plants, flax seed, radish seed, horseradish,
safflower and colocynth. Horseradish oil was particularly popular. Oil
and fat was mostly used for frying meat and vegetables, though food was
also cooked in milk or butter."

And ...

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/Con...114796842.html
"The ancient Egyptians made at least seventeen varieties of beer and at
least 24 varieties of wine (Ghaliounqui, 1979, pp. 8 and 11). Alcoholic
beverages were used for pleasure, nutrition, medicine, ritual,
remuneration (Cherrington, 1925, v, 1, p. 405) and funerary purposes.
The latter involved storing the beverages in tombs of the deceased for
their use in the after-life (King, 1947, p. 11; Darby, 1977, p.576)."

Doug Freyburger wrote:

- quote -

Not for me. I eat all kinds of grains with absolutely no problems.

Tomatoes for me was definitely an acquired taste. It took me a very
long time before I could stand the taste of a raw tomato on a sandwich.
Me, bite into a juicy whole ripe tomato? You got to be kidding?
Never!!! The more a tomato tastes like a piece of cardboard the easier
it is for me to tolerate the taste.

I still cannot stand the taste of tomato jucie. It makes me want to
puke!!! It is absolutely awful. Thank goodness I like ketchup and
tomato sauce.

Just thought that you might want to know that you are wrong.

Mr-Natural-Health wrote:
- quote -

Which has absolutely nothing to do with what's heathly.

- quote -

Except for that whole reality thing. Growing vegitables works great.
Fruit and nuts, too. Besides, grain is for animals anyways so
you'd only give up grains if you switch to a vegitarian diet.

- quote -

People would be getting diabetes. Oh wait, they do.
Especially populations that previously ate diets that were
lower glycemic index and switched to grain based foods in
the last couple of centuries. Look at reports of native
Americans in both the US and Mexico for that. Diabetes
is epidemic in many tribes and there are tribes that have
one branch on each side of the border with the high grain
eating branch having much higher diabetes rates.

So what should have happened in 10K years is some amount
of evolution. Sure enough, there is less Celiac, spru,
diabetes and such in populations who've been eating grains
for more millenia and more of those diseases in populations
who recently switched to more grains. You want to eat lots
of grain? Get some genetic engineering or pick your selectively
bred parents carefully.

- quote -

There are people with intollerances to all nightshades.
Tomatoes are vegitables or fruits and humans have been
eating various types of vegitables ever since our ancestors
left the trees and various types of fruit for longer than that.
Thus tomatoes make a poor example - they are much more
like what humans are evolved to eat than are grains. and
still some have nightshade intolerance ...

jbuch wrote:
- quote -

http://www.biblelife.org/myths.htm#medical
"Bonus Myth No. 11 - People Are All Different.

This myth is so rampant that it just had to be added to the list of
ten. The scientific design of the human body is held within very tight
restraints. People are not different in the manner claimed. Humans
react in the very same way when they are given the same environment,
same beginning health condition and same nutrition. People only appear
to be different because they have some have health condition which
restrict the normal scientific functions. A typical example is the
diabetic who attempts to go on the low-carbohydrate diet or eats a
large piece of high-sugar cherry pie with a glass of orange juice. They
react much differently than a healthy person. People think everyone is
different because someone developed a disease while another family
member does not. They don't realize that people in the same family can
sit at the same table and eat completely different meals as defined by
protein, fat and carbohydrate content. A person can go into a
restaurant and eat a low-carbohydrate dinner while others at the same
table are eating a very high carbohydrate dinner."

And, do not forget that these holy speak directly to God. Perhaps,
because of all that DDT that the author personally came in contact with
during his youth?

Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

Just thought that you might want to know what YOUR Kind of KOOKs think
about your KIND of CRAP!

Mr-Natural-Health wrote:
- quote -

Except for videos of them. There are plenty of hunter-gatherer
societies remaining in the world. Their numbers dwindle slowly
but they aren't extinct.

- quote -

Very little of which is grain.

- quote -

HAHAHAHAHAH!!! That's it! Tuck your tail between your legs and RUN
little girly man. You can't support your position with actual data so
you do the only thing you can do, spew more ad homonen and turn tail.
I sure enjoy seeing your back side as you run away.

- quote -

Who cares what you say? I don't.

Buh-bye.

jt wrote:
- quote -


You are generalizing to the universe of people with different genes and
other biochemical factors...... all based on YOUR response.

There are smokers who are genetically programmed to be susceptible to
lung cancers readily induces, and smokers who will literally never get
lung cancer - just really dirty lungs with some ordinary cell damage.


One of those "lucky" smokers could generalize to the universe that
smoking doesn't cause cancers -- because he has been smoking for 45
years and doesn't have cancer or any cancerous signs.

That would be poisonous advice and generalization.

There are smokers who can go their entire life just puffing and inhaling
a few cigarettes per day and never get addicted to high cigarette
consumption. I have worked with several of them, and my sister is one
of them. To generalize from them and claim that anyone can smoke only a
few cigarettes per day is likely to be a dangerous and false generalization.


If you eat enough of anything, you will gain weight, unless you have the
genes that give great hormones such as HGH to burn off or excrete
(undigested) large quantities of food.

----------------------------------
I agree that some or many food manufacturers are capable of doing all
sorts of unhealthy things in the search for profits.

The cigarette manufacturers did so for many years, and Reynolds Tobacco
branched out into the food industry, having seen the handwriting on the
wall.



--
1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book
2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book
3) Don't Diet Without Supplemental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins
book
4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other)

Max C. wrote:
:: I just came across that site recently, though I'm surprised I hadn't
:: found it sooner. Since I've been following Weston Price's work for
:: about 6 years now, the page tends to fall right in line with what
:: I've learned. The only exception to that is Myth No. 5 - Organic
:: Fruits, Vegetables, Eggs and Meat are More Healthy. I have to say
:: that this is new to me. It really isn't that big of a deal, though,
:: because I plan on having my own garden soon.

No 5 wasn't any surprise to me, but some of the others were, like the thing
about cage-free eggs and chickens. However, when there is a HUGE profit
incentive involved, my distrust flag pegs hard.

::
:: The main reason I posted that page is Mr. Natural's request for
:: something with plenty of references. If he's truly interested in
:: learning something, it should take him quite a while to look through
:: the many, many links on that page. We'll see.
::

Please don't hold your breath.

Max C. wrote:

- quote -

I happen to have a life. You had your shot and you clearly blew it.

I will leave you kooks, yet again, knowing anybody who thinks that
fiber naturally found in food serves no possible health purpose is a
total nutrition moron. Just like Montygram, you guys don't rate the
time of day let alone another minute of my time. You are operating at
the level of a 3rd grader. Go play with your classmates and waste more
of their time, Kook!

The point about the health of Ancient Egyptians is about as relevant as
whether or not it is currently raining in Spain. I advocate
moderation. I do NOT advocate eating extreme amount of anything,
including Grains.

Now, please continue arguing over language with your fellow failures in
life.

Just thought that you might want to know that you are on the
intellectual level of an insect in my book.

Who says so? I do.

I just came across that site recently, though I'm surprised I hadn't
found it sooner. Since I've been following Weston Price's work for
about 6 years now, the page tends to fall right in line with what I've
learned. The only exception to that is Myth No. 5 - Organic Fruits,
Vegetables, Eggs and Meat are More Healthy. I have to say that this is
new to me. It really isn't that big of a deal, though, because I plan
on having my own garden soon.

The main reason I posted that page is Mr. Natural's request for
something with plenty of references. If he's truly interested in
learning something, it should take him quite a while to look through
the many, many links on that page. We'll see.

Max.

Max C. wrote:
:: Regarding your comment on fiber, well, I can't say it any better than
:: this:
:: http://www.biblelife.org/myths.htm
:: scroll down to the section "Myth No. 3 - Fiber is Healthy and
:: Required in the Diet."

Boy, this site attacks almost everything!

- quote -

That's right. Rather than use the opportunity to reinforce your
position, just spout out your meaningless opinion about the links I've
posted. You really believe that your opinion matters, don't you?

I really shouldn't give you anything because of your complete refusal
to debate based on the merits of your arguments, but I suppose I could
say "You asked for it."

- quote -

Well, we know that ancient Egypt depended on grains a great deal. It's
an undeniable fact, so really all I have to prove is that they suffered
heart disease. How about Tulane University?

http://www2.tulane.edu/article_news_...ArticleID=2916
"Study of Egyptian mummies has revealed the presence of schistosomiasis
(a parasitic disease that continues to plague Egypt), bone disorders
and vascular diseases such as arteriosclerosis. Evidence of these
diseases in ancient populations sheds light on the causes of disease.
The presence of arteriosclerosis, for example, shows that the stress of
a modern, civilized life is not the sole cause of heart disease."

That one paragraph completely debunks your position that these diseases
are only found in modern times.

Of course there's also an entire book written on mummy autopsies called
"The Scientific Study of Mummies" by. Arthur Aufderheide. The book has
some details of the heart disease found in mummies from several parts
of the ancient world... including Egypt.

Regarding your comment on fiber, well, I can't say it any better than
this:
http://www.biblelife.org/myths.htm
scroll down to the section "Myth No. 3 - Fiber is Healthy and Required
in the Diet."

Now that you have some university-quality data given to you, I expect
you to reply with more than your usual ramblings and ad homonem... but
you probably won't.

You have my never ending pity.

Max.

jbuch wrote:

- quote -

Thank you for proving my point.

None of the above qualifies as Whole-Grain.

Just thought that you might want to STOP arguing over language for a
change.

Max C. wrote:

- quote -

Oh, really?

They were on the same level of crap characterized by those Russians
have proven that microwave ovens are bad for your health web pages.
Again, you don't have a clue about the very Western concept called
evidence.

Shown me some academic quality web pages, complete with references,
that state Ancient Egyptians suffered from widespread heart disease
from eating grains.

Show me where I ever advocated that healthy people should be eating a
diet that consists almost exclusively of grains.

My Advance Level Diet Guidelines clearly state
http://food.naturalhealthperspective...uidelines.html
that you should be eating equal amounts of both whole-grains and
vegetables.

Of course, you never were interested in reality.

You have my never ending condolences.

- quote -

Again, where's your evidence? Why are you avoiding my requests for you
to validate your position? You now have 4 opinions to validate.

On 4 Mar 2006 16:35:16 -0800, "Max C." <maxc246[at]yahoo.com> wrote:

- quote -

Oh gee kids eating frosted flakes and fruit juices, soda pop, white
bread you call this a new phenomenon?
- quote -

Insulin is needed but in the absence of insulin resistance why would
there be sustained elevation?


- quote -

Really?

- quote -

How many marathon runners or athletes in general have T2 diabetes? It
is a little more complicated than simply too many carbs.

- quote -

Which does not happen outside of T2 diabetes. T2 diabetes causes
elevation of insulin supply in the blood because it has nowhere to go.
In an exercise in futility the body releases more insulin in the blood
even though it does not solve the problem

jt wrote:
:: On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 18:39:15 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
:: <rogerzoul2[at]hotmail.com> wrote:
::
:::
::: Not, fat isn't the problem. Carbs aren't the problem. No carb is
::: healthy or unhealthy. But over consumption is. Combine that with
::: lots of fat (espeically transfats) and carby junk foods, you end up
::: with what we have.
:::
:: As long as one sticks to natural whole foods over consumption really
:: is not an issue. One good sized banana and I am halfway to being
:: full. However for manufacturers of highly processed and refined crap
:: such as cookies, poptarts, soda, etc less filling means more profits.

Well, in the end we agree more than we disagree. However, whole grains
don't work for me

- quote -

I'm sorry. Are we now accepting the notion that PHOs are a cause of
type II diabetes? What evidence can you present to support this?

8 year olds getting T2 is a simple matter of over consumption of
refined carbs. It's that simple. They eat sugar coated refined grains
for breakfast, white bread with practically every meal, more than 2 -
12 oz cans of soda per day on average. It's a wonder it doesn't happen
sooner in life.

But you seem to have veered from your previous position. Let's get
back to insulin and food adaptation. You still have provided none of
the evidence I requested backing your position of food adaptation of a
species.

I would also like to request evidence of your apparent position that
whole grains do not raise insulin levels when eaten. T2 diabetes is
caused by insulin resistance, which is caused by a constant over
stimulation of insulin receptors, which is caused by a constant
elevation of insulin supply in the blood.

If you can please provide these 3 pieces of evidence we can continue
this discussion.

Max.

Was there a reason you couldn't concentrate long enough to keep your
replies in a single post? Was it really nevessary to break it up into
3 replies? Must be all the grains clouding your concentration.

- quote -

#1 - I'd be happy to read your evidence of that. Please post your
links.
#2 - Your argument is actually irrelevant. Our founding fathers mainly
came from England, where grains were already a large part of their
diet. It wasn't until they came here to settle America that they got
away from a grain based diet and moved to more beef and vegetable
crops.

- quote -

LOL!!! This is hilarious! You provide so much entertainment value I
feel like I should be paying you! You're saying that the typical
American these days eat foods that are vastly superior to what they ate
in the 1700s. Do you realize how absurd that is?

- quote -

No? What other foods have humans been eating for thousands of years
that contain gluten?

- quote -

Are you saying that nightshade fruits contain gluten? That's the only
reason I can see for you posting this link, yet I can find no mention
of gluten there. What are you saying man?

- quote -

Some nightshades being toxic has no bearing on this discussion. As you
can clearly see from the link you provided, the eggplant has been used
for much longer than the tomato. It's in the nightshade family, so the
logic that because some nightshades are poisonous that we would have
had to "adapt" to them is just as absurd as ever. From the above link,
under your theory, we would have also adapted to potatoes and chili
peppers.

- quote -

I'm starting to get it now. You *really* think your opinion matters to
people. That's the only reason I can come up with for you constantly
dishing out your worthless condolences. But at least you provide
entertainment value.

On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 18:39:15 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
<rogerzoul2[at]hotmail.com> wrote:

- quote -

is not an issue. One good sized banana and I am halfway to being
full. However for manufacturers of highly processed and refined crap
such as cookies, poptarts, soda, etc less filling means more profits.