On 9 Feb 2007 20:23:05 -0800, "brightwinger" <awthrawthr[at]yahoo.com>
wrote:

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All substances ingested into the body have drug activity. Scurvy is a
deficiency disease, and a normal diet supplies the deficient molecule
such that scurvy is not suffered. Neverthelss, all foods have some
drug activity. If you think about it, you wouldn't eat them if they
didn't.

jack

"GMCarter" <fiar[at]verizon.net> wrote in message
newse6bt2lj8g9613ss2eeiv8lpen2os5fue2[at]4ax.com...
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You have no idea what I even asked, BECAUSE you are TOTALLY ignorant of
energy conservation.
Yet you blab on about others.

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 08:14:07 -0700, " vernon" <stilthere[at]athere>
wrote:

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Lovely. What is your company? What do you do for them?

Nope...nothing you've written so far convinces me of much but that
you're a wee bit of a crackpot.

Your list of things I have never done might include never having run
an oil corporation and assured that the people of the Niger delta or
elsewhere continued to suffer horribly despite the money to be made?

LOL...you just revealed you're pretty deep ignorance about who I am or
how I live my life.

George M. Carter

"GMCarter" <fiar[at]verizon.net> wrote in message
news:qmk8t2lbacodeefkplecnndonoliiph8s0[at]4ax.com...
- quote -

Yep, over your head.

You have done NOTHING except turn your thermostat down and think you have
made some major contribution.
Don't forget to turn it UP (higher temp) in the summer.

Tell us all about energy wheels, and plate exchangers.
Tell us all about "local" generation where excess steam (normally spewed
into the atmosphere), is used for heating.
Tell us all about active forest conservation.

I have made you admit that you know nothing of these much less participate.

You mention "Ayne Rand-type libertarian. It's all about you, community be
damned."
You have shown ZERO community involvement.
You have never been to a city council meeting to stop gas powered lawn
mowers or leaf blowers.
You have never tried to help move from gasoline / oil powered vehicles to
hydrogen powered.
You have never, when visiting a forest, carried out underbrush.
You have never promoted and signed a petition to not allow any motorized
boats except emergency on a particular pristine lake.
For certain, you have never laid out hard cash of your own to cause any of
the above.

FYI
Ayne Rand "You should be allowed to do ANYTHING you want as long as it
doesn't interfere with my space"
Common community IS my space, DUUUUHHHH
Another Ayne Rand saying, "Your freedom ends where my nose begins" (not
original but repeated many times)

For the slow witted that infers an involvement in community.
Hence banning smoking in ALL enclosed public areas.
For you, full of nothing but hate, it means nothing.

The only thing I liked about Ayne Rand was the capability she had in
exposing dunces. Her writings were all over the place.

So, go back to your simple life and blame all those big oil companies for
YOUR problems.

Oh, here's a scenario for you.
My company did a major energy conservation renovation for three different
Casinos. They were told that the energy consumption for air conditioning
would be reduced about 30% but no hard numbers. Obviously electrical costs
for lighting and machines would not be affected (another project). About 3
months after the renovation, two of the casinos complained that their bills
hadn't gone down. I had them send me the statements. I pointed out that
the meters for the A/C showed a 40% reduction. They contacted the Electric
company and were told that because of lower consumption, they were put in a
different price bracket. It was changed after the owners went to the city /
county counsel.
The other casino? no problem. The difference? The two casinos being ripped
off were in districts where the Electric Company was "GOVERNMENT" run.

Is there corporate collusion in the health care world? Absolutely.
Is there corporate collusion in the drug world? Absolutely
Is the AMA just another variation of a trade Union? Absolutely
Is the Bar Association just another variation of a trade union? Absolutely

What are the basics of any government or government control, today? A
combination of the above four.

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:32:20 -0700, " vernon" <stilthere[at]athere>
wrote:

snip
- quote -

So you claim. Why should I believe you?

What education I have is never enough but I can tell you--so far
you're not providing anything intelligent but a lot of bitching, wild
claims and stock, knee-jerk declarations that lack meaning or value.

George M. Carter

"GMCarter" <fiar[at]verizon.net> wrote in message
news:glu5t25nocscgcipv8sqv6i9qvnisp5u64[at]4ax.com...
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I have ACTUALLY done something about it. You have not and don't know how.

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Only about 20.

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Get an education. You are just full of trite words of which you don't even
know the origin or meaning
Get an education.

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What a dunce. They are failing miserably and you don't even know the
undercurrent to reverse the trend. The undercurrrent will fail bacause ALL
civilizations drift to Socialism = communism = NaZI = fascist and THEN FAIL

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The smallests $200,000.00, the largest $5,000,000.00
This Friday I meet with another investor who wants to do the same thing.

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I just did, You didn't believe. IF, big IF you had a clue, you would know
what I was talking about. As with ALL people of your beliefs, you are
yotally ignorant of real solutions because all you want to do is bitch bitch
bitch.

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YOU are stating YOUR feelings. You just bitch and do NOTHING.

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NO, again your total ignorance is showing.. You don't know haow to "take
care" of a forest. All you know is cut or not cut.
Not, that it has anything to do with pristine forests, but did you in your
ignorance know that we have 4 times the number of full grown trees in the
U.S. as were here in 1600.

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Government is ALWAYS lobbies.

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Government is ALWAYS lobbies

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Your listing of Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot ( ALL socialist / communist / Nazi)
is interesting.
2006 liberalism IS socialism. Socialism, Communism, NAZI, fascism
(Government owned and controlled)

You have been brain washed as a result of no education.

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 03:36:02 GMT, wright[at]l1000.prodigy.net (David
Wright) wrote:

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That was about 17 years ago when we began to see multi-drug resistant
TB, for example. Or around 25 years ago when we saw limited
availability for drugs to treat opportunistic infecitons related to
HIV infection, particularly mycoavium, cryptococcus, pneumocystis,
etc.

Let alone the fact that there are plenty of horrific infectious
diseases globally that kill millions.

This is PRECISELY why the privatized approach to R&D has been an
abject failure. Such an approach requires a "market" in order for
anything to be done. The antibiotic R&D effort has been tepid to
dismal, at best. If they work, the course of therapy is short, and
even pharma can't justify more than $40-50 per pill (or whatever
outrageous "market can bear" psychotic gouging they can come up with).

So not enough profit for the hungry ghosts of pharma.

So more people die and suffer needlessly.

So what we need is a huge public investment in R&D from in vitro to
Phase IV, keep products in the public domain, reward DISCOVERERS,
change the patent laws and improve the USPO, stop handing patents out
like candy, price controls, single payer healthcare--these type of
reforms can bring us to a new age of discovery that will based on what
helps people survive diseases.

Perhaps I should patent the idea as "non-obvious."

George M. Carter

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 08:06:36 -0700, " vernon" <stilthere[at]athere>
wrote:

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I see--so you're an Ayn Rand-type libertarian. It's all about you,
community be damned.

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You probably don't know any environmentalists, then.

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LOL...how silly. Socialism is not communism and neither are fascism.
Hitler and Stalin represented notions of fascism and dictatorial power
more than any genuine system of socialism.

I don't really have mentors, per se. However, the approaches of France
and Germany in terms of healthcare, for example, are closer to what I
think is more equitable and cost effective than the abject mess we
have in the United States.

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Really? I think that would be marvelous if true.

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Well, share some of the experience if you like. Otherwise, I don't
really believe you.

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So--why would you care? It doesn't affect you, does it?

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By doing what? Preventing logging?

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I think that the reason healthcare access in the US is a mess is
indeed in part due to government (e.g., Frist) mostly due to being
corrupted by the huge lobbying efforts and cash infusions of the
insurance and pharmaceutical - drug-device-diagnostic industries.

It's a joint effort, the engine of which is run by a perverted notion
of what privatized discovery is.

GOOD government should be there to genuinely regulate industry from
committing such excesses.

However, as examples like Stalin, Bush/Cheney, Hitler, Pol Pot and
others show, corruption destroys those efforts, whether it is a
community of humans in government or a community of humans with access
to huge amounts of money running transnational corporations.

George M. Carter

wright[at]l1000.prodigy.net (David Wright) wrote:

- quote -

Merck were doing US trials on behalf of CSL in 2004, so I assume that
they were throwing in some money. CSL isn't any small company - 7,500
employees in 26 countries.

Here's the media release when Merck received FDA approval:

http://www.csl.com.au/US_FDA_Approve...il20060609.asp

And here's the release announcing the Merck licensing.

http://www.csl.com.au/CSL_Applicatio...l_06122005.asp
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

In article <9r63t2pf33i4imva2pi3q2f1p0nd3gs7ed[at]4ax.com> ,
GMCarter <noway[at]nowherenospam.com> wrote:
- quote -

Yeah. Not too surprising, but still unfortunate.

- quote -

I can't be sure, but I suspect that the antibiotic situation may turn
around. Antibiotic research went out of fashion for a while when
people started to feel they really had it all sorted out. Then we
start seeing all these abx-resistant strains cropping up. Suddenly,
there's a market.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If George Bush were my dad, I'd be drunk in public so often that
James Baker would have me killed." -- Bill Maher on the Bush twins

In article <hjc2t29f2cq31hov60qcjuclglemdfhh6m[at]4ax.com> ,
Peter Bowditch <myfirstname[at]ratbags.com> wrote:
- quote -

How about the clinical trials?

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If George Bush were my dad, I'd be drunk in public so often that
James Baker would have me killed." -- Bill Maher on the Bush twins

"GMCarter" <fiar[at]verizon.net> wrote in message
news:0c73t2hhvj7ecs0r5l4hktqe01pkedn8pv[at]4ax.com...
- quote -

No, it's just healthier.
I have yet to see an environmentalist (anti oil) who is not either in
squalor or living off inherited money from those same oil companies or large
corporations.

- quote -

The philosophy of Hitler, Stalin and other Socialist = communist = fascist.
Thank you for making it clear who your mentors are.

BTW, I have actually designed huge energy saving systems for hospitals,
campuses, cities.

Proponents = the organizations, banks, oil and energy suppliers.

Opponents = environmentalists (Out of total ignorance because it was new and
because the oil companies weren't against it.)

Now, exactly why would someone be against 30% reduction in raw fuel and 30%
reduction in expelled heat?
Ignorance, and they didn't think of it, and they would have to bitch about
something else.

Government? They get voted in by the phony and ignorant environmentalists.
(They call themselves environmentalists. They are NOT) (They are stupid)

You see, I am on the side of getting something done, not a source of
ignorant bitching.

Those same idiotic environmentalist are ruining our pristine forests.

The REASON for a medical and supplemental mess today is GOVERNMENT (made up
of people with an agenda, not intellect)

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 08:25:05 -0700, " vernon" <stilthere[at]athere>
wrote:

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LOL. So charming, Vernie!

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Zero.

- quote -

See? You do care. Marvelous!

I see the role of government as important in regulating industry and
assuring that whatever rights they may wish to exercise are balanced
by the very serious responsibilities they so often ignore.

George M. Carter

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 02:33:06 GMT, wright[at]l1000.prodigy.net (David
Wright) wrote:

snip....
- quote -

Oh you bet--my work is almost 100% around HIV and/or hepatitis C. Most
of my friends are living with HIV--and the many have survived because
of the activism that brought drugs to market faster.

Unfortunately, pharma has used that political effort to hasten FDA
approval to their advantage to dump crap on the market and mostly for
drugs that do NOT have anything to do with life threatening diseases.

Not to mention their abject failure to do much in the way of
development of antibiotic or other therapies for infectious diseases.

- quote -

Me too!!

- quote -

An excellent question.

Who would know? Pharma is as opaque as Dick Cheney when it comes to
their books. The D part of R&D seems to be hiring more reps to go
pester doctors with pabulum, pretty pictures and a conference at a
golf course in Hawaii.

Even human growth hormone is outrageously priced for no good reason.
The same stuff given to cows costs pennies based on the same
manufacturing techniques.

Between tax write offs and jump starting off of NIH research, I
seriously doubt that Merck spent THAT much to justify $350. In fact,
they cannot.

We could produce the discovery, the studies and the product of things
like polio vaccines for pennies...nothing has changed but technology
has improved vastly.

To justify $350 a pop is to believe yet more lies. And that pains and
saddens me more than anything in the world--because it corrupts the
nobility of science, the urgency to do good in the world, replacing it
with a cheap, degrading urgency to profit no matter what.

This degradation of intent is horrifically dangerous--but the people
in the thick of it are too blind to see it, to caught up in their own
lies and bullshit, sorta like Bush and Cheney with Iraq.

And the result is that millions of people suffer and die needlessly.

If we don't change the system willfully and intentionally now, the
consequences of the inevitable deterioration will be horrific.

George M. Carter

wright[at]l1000.prodigy.net (David Wright) wrote:

- quote -

It was probably zero, because it was developed by CSL in Australia. I
assume that Merck pays some sort of licence or royalty fee.


- quote -

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

In article <khf0t2d6geibldjo7ldqep3kgkjnondr0g[at]4ax.com> ,
GMCarter <noway[at]nowherenospam.com> wrote:
- quote -

I was thinking in particular of protease inhibitors and other anti-HIV
drugs. When you're talking about very sick people, they can't afford
to wait for two years just because PeterB is worried about side
effects. They're going to suffer a very major effect of their
disease: they're gonna die in less than two years.

- quote -

I started to gag when I realized that the big pharm companies were
spending more on advertising than on R&D, and I surely do wish the
prohibition against advertising prescription meds direct to consumers
had never been lifted. I'd like to see it put back in place.

- quote -

I have no idea what Merck spent on developing Gardasil, so I won't
offer an opinion. It does seem awfully high, though.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If George Bush were my dad, I'd be drunk in public so often that
James Baker would have me killed." -- Bill Maher on the Bush twins

In article <eqp08i$12g$1[at]news.iucc.ac.il> ,
Richard Schultz <schultr[at]mail.biu.ack.il> wrote:
- quote -

No, though there are certain indications that he *is*.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If George Bush were my dad, I'd be drunk in public so often that
James Baker would have me killed." -- Bill Maher on the Bush twins

"PeterB" <pkm[at]mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1171316207.492569.320370[at]h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
- quote -

True, but one step at a time.


- quote -

On Feb 9, 9:20 pm, " vernon" <stilthere[at]athere> wrote:
- quote -

Since synthesis *can* result in a perfect analog to the naturally-
occuring form, such as with vitamin C, that description is too
ambiguous. To reliably distinguish nutrients from drugs, we have to
avoid the variability in manufacturing and focus on the chemistry.
Logically, that would mean dietary supplements should not contain
vitamins that are not identical to those found in nature. The drug
makers won't make this argument for themselves, for good reason. They
aren't making money on their processing patents and they want to bring
ALL nutrients under one big umbrella in order to eliminate the
competition.

- quote -

"GMCarter" <fiar[at]verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ltf0t29r95qhrcqrqprdtcq7jr7agcrtbe[at]4ax.com...
- quote -

GEEE

You really are retarded.

How much government subsidy do you collect a month?

I keep my house at about 66 to 68 in the winter.
I don't buy chocolate.