On Oct 31, 6:08 pm, ironjustice <teamtan...[at]hotmail.com wrote The
people who travel to high altitude get erythrocytosis / increased red
blood cell production <<

Increased red blood cell production is called polycythemia amongst
other things .. like hemochromatosis .. or erythrocytosis ..

http://bloodjournal.hematologylibrar...abstract/5/1/1

Blood, 1950, Vol. 5, No. 1, pp. 1-31.
© 1950 American Society of Hematology, Inc.
------------------------------------------------
STUDIES ON BLOOD FORMATION AND DESTRUCTION IN THE POLYCYTHEMIA OF HIGH
ALTITUDE
CÉSAR F. MERINO M.D.1
1 Department of Pathological Physiology and the Institute of Andean
Biology of the Faculty of Medicine, Lima, Peru.



Studies of blood formation and destruction in the polycythemia of high
altitude have been carried out. Three different groups of subjects
were studied:

1. Healthy adult male subjects from sea level who, after being studied
at this level, were taken to an altitude of 4,540 meters (Morococha)
where they developed a marked polycythemic process. When these
subjects returned to sea level, the mechanisms of recuperation of the
hematologic equilibrium were studied.

Normal adult subjects, natives of high altitude, chronically
polycythemic due to their permanent residence in Morococha, who were
first studied in their native town and then brought to sea level where
they were observed during five weeks.

3. Subjects, residents of high altitude (Morococha), who had lost
their adaptation to it; i.e. who had developed chronic altitude
sickness or Soroche (Monge's malady).

The observations carried out permit the following conclusions:

1. The polycythemic process of subjects with anoxia caused by a low
pressure environment is due to a greater blood formation by the
hematopoietic organs. This becomes manifest after forty-eight hours.
The very discreet polycythemia frequently found during the first hours
is probably the result of hemoconcentration and release of stored
blood.

2. This polycythemic process is not accompanied by quantitative
alterations of the leukocytes nor of the platelets; thus, differing
from polycythemia vera, in which there is as a rule an increase in all
the hematologic elements.

3. The increased blood volume of residents at high altitude is due
exclusively to the increased red cell mass, the plasma volume being
more likely to be found diminished.

4. In normal subjects who are temporarily or permanently exposed to an
atmosphere of low barometric pressure, the excretion of fecal
urobilinogen does not exceed the limits considered normal at sea
level, but increases with relation to the larger circulatory
hemoglobin mass, a normal hemolytic index being maintained.

5. The hyperbilirubinemia very frequently found in the natives and in
those resident for a long time at high altitudes appears to be related
to a lesser excretion of this pigment by the liver, probably on the
basis of the anoxic state. The greater production of bilirubin in
subjects at high altitude is not sufficient to explain, in and of
itself, the pigmentary elevation in the blood.

6. The mechanism of the disappearance of the polycythemia when the
subjects from a high altitude are brought to sea level, appears to be
as follows: (a) temporary diminution or inhibition of erythropoiesis,
and (b) a greater blood destruction. The latter takes place only
during the first days of stay at sea level, being chiefly responsible
for the early rapid decrease of the degree of polycythemia, while the
former acts in a more prolonged form and is principally responsible
for the erythropoietic "normalization."

7. In two cases of chronic altitude sickness, or chronic Soroche
(Monge's disease), the output of fecal urobilinogen exceeded
proportionally the increase of the circulatory hemoglobin mass. The
hemolytic index was found abnormally high.

8. The above findings indicate that the polycythemia of the normal
individual residing at high altitudes is characterized by a
proportional and direct accentuation in the processes of blood
formation and destruction. On the other hand, in those subjects also
residing at high altitudes, who exhibit an abnormally high
polycythemia (chronic Soroche), the accentuation in the processes of
blood destruction is proportionally greater than that corresponding to
the greater erythropoiesis. This characteristic constitutes a possible
diagnostic criterion and can perhaps explain in part the etiologic
mechanism of this alteration.





Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
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DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
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- quote -

- quote -

notion? <<

High .. altitude .. comes into it because high altitude is a ..
**human model of iron overload" ..

The people who travel to high altitude get erythrocytosis / increased
red blood cell production and they manifest disease at a higher rate
than those who live at sea level.

This higher rate of disease is caused by the increased **viscosity**
of the blood created by the increased red blood cell production /
erythrocytosis .. they go hand in hand .

The increased red blood cell production leads to increased red blood
cell **destruction** / homeostasis / strives for a normal hemoglobin
which leads to increased iron absorption / hemolytic anemia ..
increased **hemolysis** ,

Hemolytic anemia and increased iron absorption .. happen ..
**together** .. they go hand in hand .

So the fact iron reduction therapy and iron reduction therapy ..
bloodletting ARE working in both high altitude sickness AND end stage
chronic liver disease .. cirrhosis .. IE: it may be reversible ..
means .. ?

I answered your question ..

I wonder if you can remember what your question was ..

I hope you wrote it .. down ..

Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

On Oct 30, 3:28 pm, ferr...[at]paris.com wrote:
How does this figure into yyour new altitude as cause of all disease
notion? <<

You don't .. know .. ?

Didn't I explain all of the high altitude .. bit .. to you
already .. ?

I think I did ..

And YOU .. **know** I did ..

And NOW you come onto a post about .. liver cirrhosis which is the end-
stage of chronic liver disease.

Now do you have something to .. say .. ABOUT .. liver cirrhosis which
is the end-stage of chronic liver disease .. ?

Nooo .. you don't ..

YOU .. come after the .. poster ..

Is that what you are .. doing .. ?

Step up .. for once in your fkg .. life .. boy ..


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 14:35:37 -0700, Paul G <paulkelliegillman[at]hotmail.com>
wrote:

- quote -

I still don't get it. Particularly this sentence:

- quote -

"Simple means"?

/greyhackles

How does this figure into yyour new altitude as cause of all disease
notion?

On Oct 30, 3:58 pm, "ironjust...[at]aol.com" <ironjust...[at]aol.com> wrote:
- quote -

Didn't get it the first two times, glad I read the 3rd one.

"It may be reversible"
"Venesection"

Rev Med Brux. 2007 Sep;28(4):270-5.Links
[How to prevent complications of liver cirrhosis?][Article in French]


Adler M, Verset C, Moreno G.
Service de Gastro-entérologie et d'Hépato-pancréatologie, Hôpital
Erasme, Bruxelles.

Liver cirrhosis is the end-stage of chronic liver disease. Even at the
compensated stage complications are multiple, severe and potentially
fatal which are related to liver insufficiency, portal hypertension
and a pre-cancerous stage. It is now possible to diagnose cirrhosis
through non invasive tools like biochemical scores and Fibroscan. It
may be reversible provided adequate counselling about excessive
alcohol intake and metabolic syndrome and specific treatments such as
antivirals, venesection, immunosuppressive therapies are implemented.
The role of the general practitioner is to diagnosis and treat
cirrhosis early together with the hepatogastroenterologist. He can
also, through simple means, prevent complications such as
hepatocellular carcinoma, variceal bleeding, overt encephalopathy and
renal failure and liver decompensation after surgery.

PMID: 17958020 [PubMed - in process]



Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk