EOn Nov 10, 9:47 am, TheGuffster <TheAmazingGu...[at]gmail.com> wrote:
- quote -

Excellent And even before there were meds for TB people often got
better
if they got lots of good food and plenty of sun. Vitamin C, D and A
are pretty
important in this context. The lung will wall off the infected area
and keep
it in check though sometime it gets reactivated in old age.

trigonometry1...[at]gmail.com wrote:

- quote -

Yes - I'm anemic, and I find that when I DO remember the iron
supplesments, I'm actually LESS susceptilble to illness.

V

On Nov 10, 3:47 am, dank <d...[at]nugget.org> wrote:
- quote -

Why don't you read about TB before you open your clap trap? The
majority of people with TB aren't contagious and they do work,
probably harder than you. I do work around people with TB, thats just
part of being in the medical field. Just because you're an uneducated
clod doesn't mean everyone else is!

Oh and lastly, when was the last time you got a TB test? Your chances
of having it are around 1 in 3(Depending on where you live!)

Here, try to educate yourself.....
http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/t/tube...contagious.htm

TheGuffster wrote...
- quote -

Well, they can't work anyway, unless you are volunteering to work next
to them. The choices are paying to quarantine them until they are
cured or they die of the disease or old age, or pay to support them in
the mainstream community where they continue to infect other people
who will also require the same financial support. There is a third
option and that is to gas them to death and incinerate them, but that
is unlikely to generate much political support (at the moment).

I boarded a city bus the other day and was heading towards the back
when an old homeless man sitting there began coughing his lungs out.
I headed for the front and opened the window and I noticed nobody else
was sitting next to him, not even you. I believe we all wished he
would just go away, but there was nothing we could do.

On Nov 8, 4:39 pm, dank <d...[at]nugget.org> wrote:
- quote -

So you would like to lock up the 2 billion people world wide that have
TB? Can we put them in your backyard?

Idiot!

"ironjustice" <ironjustice[at]cashette.com> wrote in message
news:1194570661.806442.160770[at]k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
- quote -

(rant snipped)

QED


- quote -

I have one, as you know from your net-stalking of me.
Do you have one?


- quote -

ferrous[at]paris.com wrote:
- quote -

"control" is illusory.

Laurie

--
Scientifically-credible info on human diet:
http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html
news:alt.food.vegan.science

On Nov 8, 2:39 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...[at]be.joking> wrote:
Personal abuse is your first and only recoourse to your critics. <<

Critics .. ?

Critics are those who KNOW what they are talking about ..

YOU on the other hand are a .. jrkff .. plain and simple ..

AND you have PROVEN that .. numerous .. times ..

How .. ?

By responding JUST like you have to a post which contains NOTHING
but .. science .. and HAVE the stupidity to actually .. say ..
"nothing you post remotely supports your basic premise",

You are .. stupid ..

I think I've called you that .. before ..

Or .. subversive ..

Which one is it ..

Both .. ?

GET a fkg .. life ..


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk





- quote -

"ironjustice" <ironjustice[at]cashette.com> wrote in message
news:1194555974.926215.136530[at]e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
- quote -

There's nothing like a well reasoned argument, is there?
And, as usual, you present nothing like a well reasoned argument.

Why on earth do you persist with this, Tommy?
You are wrong.
So wrong.
Your ideas are based on a fallacy, nothing you post remotely supports your
basic premise, you don't use anything remotely resembling scientific
discussion.
Personal abuse is your first and only recoourse to your critics.
As I've said before, those that haven't killfiled you laugh at you.
So why do you bother? Trolling can't be THAT much fun, can it?

ironjustice wrote...
- quote -

Other than a demand for lots of money, are any of the urgent measures
to control HIV and TB actually specified? Are there any plans to
physically stop the infected person from infecting others?

Right now it seems the plan is to take trillions of Western tax dollars
and use it to buy expensive pills to give to African countries. That's
the entire plan; there seems to be no effort to prevent the medicated
HIV/TB patients from continuing to spread their diseases. If anything,
Western drug companies profit from failure to contain these epidemics.
If you look at the "prevention" measures health agencies are taking,
it consists of counseling the infectee with a brochure and giving him
a few condoms along with his bucket of AIDS pills and sending him on
his way to infect the rest of the village.

On Nov 8, 9:27 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...[at]be.joking> wrote:
Listen to the man,<<

How come I ain't surprised .. YOU .. call this lying twobitpceofsht ..
a .. man ..

Could it be .. because you consider yourself a man .. UK medical
guy .. ?

I believe you need testicles.

You have used improper .. markers .. TO .. distinguish .. a .. man ..

Lying , doctoring medical studies and failing ones' .. charges .. are
NOT .. 'markers' .. to .. use ..

Let me .. advise .. you ..

Type in .. "manly markers" ..

Start there .. and when you get .. stuck ..

Ask .. and I will tell you more phrases .. to .. use .. in your study
of HOW to .. BE .. a .. man ..


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

<ferrous[at]paris.com> wrote in message
news:47332e5f$0$3846$1c4686b2[at]news.club.cc.cmu.edu...
- quote -

Listen to the man, Tommy.
You're wrong again.

Iron uptake is controlled at the gut level. If someone is low iron then
supplementation will increase uptake, if not then the extra iron will
not be absorbed.

I know this new reality will take a bit for someone who has spent years
heating up the search enjines in what is now exposed to be a waste of
time.

Go with the new altitude notion instead.

Jesus ate a mediterranean diet.

On Nov 8, 6:13 am, ferr...[at]paris.com wrote: Disorders related to iron
levels are due to genetic and
other disruptions in these normal controls. <<

Actually .. iron supplementation has been PROVEN .. to increase
susceptibility to .. infection ..

Sooo .. exactly what are you doing on this thread .. ?

You obviously .. don't KNOW .. that .. didn't KNOW that .. and
obviously .. evidenced by the sheer number of times THAT has been
shown ON my threads .. means .. ? .. you will NEVER .. know ..
that ..

Sooo .. seeing this is posted to science .. groups .. and you have
no .. ability .. IN .. science .. at .. all ..

Explain what you are doing .. here ..

Using science ..

"well-meaning investigators gave
iron to supplement the low levels found in Somali nomads. At the end
of
one month, 38 percent had infections versus 8 percent of those who had
not taken the supplements"

Learn your sht .. or fk .. off ..

You are .. one .. **useless** .. fk ..

Print that .. out .. or write it down .. or repeat it numerous times
outloud to yourself.
All those methods work if something is important to .. understand.

Understand .. ?

Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

"Sooo .. by FORCED mass supplementation of iron in the foods in Africa
are we **responsible** for this .."

Take it easy, we know it takes some getting use to. The body controls
iron levels. Disorders related to iron levels are due to genetic and
other disruptions in these normal controls.

Thus, the answer with regard to africa is no because they too have
normal control of iron levels taken as a whole.

Do these disorders vary in africa with altitude?

Jesus ate a mediterranean diet.

On Nov 7, 10:08 pm, ironjustice <ironjust...[at]cashette.com> wrote:
- quote -

Well "your idea" has some merit here though
there are other factors. First HIV makes people much
more prone to catching TB. Further iron fortification in
the context of stunted growth due the lack of
protein and overal calories may serve little good.

And the spread of Islam would also worsen the situation.
When the black women coverup per Islamic rules, they
would become more prone to aggressive TB as they
will be shorted on there UV exposure. Low vitamin
D as a result of too little UV in the context of HIV
wouldn't likely be good either.

Personally, I avoid fortified flour for the most part.
On the other hand, having been anemic in the past,
I can say iron supplementation can work wonders in
the right context.

Sooo .. by FORCED mass supplementation of iron in the foods in Africa
are we **responsible** for this ..

FRANCE
HIV-TB co-epidemic sweeps sub-Saharan Africa

Fri, 02 Nov 2007

Drug-resistant tuberculosis and HIV have merged into a double-
barrelled epidemic that is sweeping across sub-Saharan Africa and
threatening global efforts to eradicate both diseases, according to a
report released on Friday.

Over-burdened health systems are unable to cope with the epidemic and
risk collapse, said the report, which calls for urgent measures to
curb its spread.

A third of the world's 40 million HIV/Aids sufferers also have TB, and
the death rate for people infected with both is five times higher than
that for tuberculosis alone.

Aggravated by XDR-TB

The situation is aggravated by surging rates of multi-drug resistant
and extensively drug-resistant TB precisely in those areas where the
rates of HIV infection are highest.

MDR and XDR tuberculosis are resistant to some or all of the standard
drugs used to fight the disease.

"Now the eye of the storm is in sub-Saharan Africa, where half of new
TB cases are HIV co-infected," said Veronica Miller, co-author of the
report and director of The Forum for Collaborative HIV Research, which
issued the study.

"Unlike bird flu, the global threat of HIV/TB is not hypothetical - it
is here now," she said.

One third of the world's population carries the tuberculosis
bacterium, but the disease remains latent in nine out of 10.

HIV changes equation

HIV, however, changes the equation: Of those whose immune systems have
been compromised by HIV, 10 percent will develop active tuberculosis
each year, according to the report.

"In today's world, a new TB infection occurs every second. When one
considers that much of this transmission occurs in areas with high HIV
prevalence, the imminent danger of a global co-epidemic is clear,"
said Diane Havlir, head of the World Health Organisation's TB/HIV
working group.

TB control has been severely destabilised in regions with high rates
of HIV, the study says.

In one community of 13 000 people outside of Cape Town, South Africa,
the TB patient case load increased six-fold between 1996 and 2004, the
researchers reported.

A staggering increase

"There has been a staggering increase in TB in this community, and
this has been replicated right across southern Africa," Stephan Lawn,
a medical researcher at the University of Cape Town, said in a
statement.

The report called for urgent coordinated action on the part of
governments, researchers, drug companies and local communities.

The measures called for include fast diagnostic tests to detect all
forms of TB in HIV-infected adults and children; new methods to
rapidly map HIV and TB hotspots; new screening tools to identify new
cases of drug-resistant TB; and better equipment for field
laboratories in the most affected areas.

There are approximately nine million new cases of tuberculosis in the
world every year, according to the WHO. In 2005, the disease killed
1.6 million people.

At the same time, an estimated 40 million people are living with HIV,
according to the UN and the WHO. There were 4.3 million new infections
in 2006 with 2.8 million (65 percent) of these occurring in sub-
Saharan Africa.

In 2006, 2.9 million people died of Aids-related illnesses.

In South Africa, HIV/Aids is the leading cause of child mortality and
accounts for 40 to 60 percent of all deaths nationwide, according to
Unicef.

AFP

----------------------------------------
The Effect of the Host's Iron Status on Tuberculosis
Author(s) Johan R. Boelaert, Stefaan J. Vandecasteele, Rui
Appelberg,
and Victor R. Gordeuk
Identifiers
The Journal of Infectious Diseases, volume 195 (2007), pages 1745-
1753
DOI: 10.1086/518040
PubMed ID: 17492589

Abstract
Several lines of evidence have suggested that iron is critical for
Mycobacterium tuberculosis growth in macrophages. Macrophage iron
loading in patients with African iron overload increases the risk of
tuberculosis (TB) and may worsen TB outcome. Likewise, macrophage
iron
loading may contribute to an increased predisposition toward TB in
HIV
infection. Human genetic disorders or variations may increase the
risk
of TB or worsen its outcome through macrophage iron loading,
including
the haptoglobin 2-2 phenotype, NRAMP1 polymorphisms (at least in
Africans and Asians), and possibly ferroportin 1 mutations, but not
HFE hemochromatosis. Thus, the host's iron status may be an important
yet underevaluated factor in TB prevention and therapy and in TB
vaccine design.


Published by the University of Chicago Press


Copyright © 2007, the Infectious Diseases Society of America.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------*-----**-----

J Clin Virol 2001 Feb;20(3):111-5


Iron status and the outcome of HIV infection: an overview.


Gordeuk VR, Delanghe JR, Langlois MR, Boelaert JR


Center for Sickle Cell Disease and Department of Medicine, Howard
University College of Medicine, 20059, Washington, DC, USA


[Medline record in process]


Background: Theoretical considerations and experiments in the
laboratory suggest that excessive iron stores may have an adverse
effect on immunity. If so, high iron stores might be especially a
problem in patients with human immunodeficiency virus (HIV)
infection.
Objective and study design: Review published clinical studies that
provide information regarding the effect of iron status on the
outcome
of HIV infection. Results: Four clinical observations have
provided
some perspective on the effect of iron status on the outcome of
HIV-1
infection. First, in a restrospective study of HIV-positive
thalassemia major patients, the rate of progression of HIV disease
was
significantly faster in patients with lower doses of
desferrioxamine
and higher serum ferritin concentrations.
**Second, the inadvertent
simultaneous administration of low doses of oral iron with dapsone
for
the prophylaxis of Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia in HIV-positive
patients may have been associated with excess mortality.**
Third, a
study of haptoglobin polymorphisms in HIV-positive subjects
indicated
that the haptoglobin 2-2 polymorphism is associated with higher
iron
stores and shortened survival as compared with the haptoglobin 1-1
or
2-1 phenotypes. Fourth, a retrospective study of bone marrow
macrophage iron in HIV-positive patients suggested that survival
is
shorter with high iron stores. Conclusion: These four observations
raise the possibility that high iron status may adversely
influence
the outcome of HIV-1 infection.


PMID: 11166657, UI: 21112136

__________________________________________________ _______________

J Gastroenterol. 2007 Oct;42(10):830-6. Epub 2007 Oct 15.
Long-term phlebotomy with low-iron diet therapy lowers risk of
development of hepatocellular carcinoma from chronic hepatitis
C.Kato J, Miyanishi K, Kobune M, Nakamura T, Takada K, Takimoto R,
Kawano Y, Takahashi S, Takahashi M, Sato Y, Takayama T, Niitsu Y.
Fourth Department of Internal Medicine, Sapporo Medical University
School of Medicine, South-1, West-16, Chuo-ku, Sapporo, 060-8543,
Japan.

BACKGROUND:
We have previously demonstrated that in patients with chronic
hepatitis C (CHC), iron depletion improves serum alanine
aminotransferase (ALT) levels as well as hepatic oxidative DNA
damage.
However, it has not been determined whether continuation of iron
depletion therapy for CHC favorably influences its progression to
hepatocellular carcinoma (HCC).
METHODS:
We conducted a cohort study on biopsy-proven CHC patients with
moderate or severe liver fibrosis who failed to respond to previous
interferon (IFN) therapy or had conditions for which IFN is
contradicted. Patients were divided into two groups: subjects in
group
A (n = 35) underwent weekly phlebotomy (200 g) until they reached a
state of mild iron deficiency, followed by monthly maintenance
phlebotomy for 44-144 months (median, 107 months), and they were
advised to consume a low-iron diet (5-7 mg iron/day); group B (n =
40)
comprised CHC patients who declined to receive iron depletion
therapy.
RESULTS:
In group A, during the maintenance phase, serum ALT levels decreased
to less than 60 IU/l in all patients and normalized (<40 IU/l) in 24
patients (69%), whereas in group B no spontaneous decrease in serum
ALT occurred. Hepatocarcinogenesis rates in groups A and B were 5.7%
and 17.5% at the end of the fifth year, and 8.6% and 39% in the tenth
year, respectively. Multivariate analysis revealed that iron
depletion
therapy significantly lowered the risk of HCC (odds ratio, 0.57)
compared with that of untreated patients (P = 0.0337).
CONCLUSIONS:
Long-term iron depletion for CHC patients is a promising modality for
lowering the risk of progression to HCC.

PMID: 17940836 [PubMed - in process]

Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk