Many Scientists are Coming to View our Medical Literature asPropaganda

#21 06-14-2008, 08:37 AM

<dongpingpingdea[at]yahoo.cn> wrote in message
news:a796ac59-b53e-4da5-ad9c-2bc28b2fcb74[at]j1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
- quote -

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I can't argue with that.

Jim

#20 06-14-2008, 08:31 AM

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#19 05-26-2008, 12:25 AM

Ron Peterson wrote:
- quote -

> On May 19, 6:53 pm, retrogro...[at]comcast.net wrote:
> > On Mon, 19 May 2008 16:49:24 -0700 (PDT), Ron Peterson wrote:
>
> > > Somehow, I worry when government starts dictating what people can and
> > > can't say.
>
> > It really interferes with fraud and con men.
>
> Dairies can't label their milk as not coming from cows not treated
> with rGBH. It seems that government is the one perpetrating the fraud.

It isn't "government for the people" these days -- unless they're the
people who pay for commercials. Free speech doesn't come cheap!

--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c

#18 05-26-2008, 12:22 AM

Ron Peterson wrote:
- quote -

> On May 18, 1:49 am, Marshall Price <d0213...[at]yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes, it is indeed scandalous. Only the USA and New Zealand permit
> > direct-to-consumer advertising of prescription drugs, and the long lists
> > of warnings such commercials include are glossed over so quickly and in
> > such a low-key tenor that "consumers" don't get a chance to consider
> > them carefully.
>
> Somehow, I worry when government starts dictating what people can and
> can't say.

When fraud is legalized, you'll have a lot more to worry about. Do
you really think this is a first-amendment issue? Get real! Do you
think doctors would have no way of learning about new drugs if it
weren't for their patients sitting through the commercials on "60
Minutes"? Pick up a JAMA sometime! Or even better, ask your doctor.

- quote -

> > But the most extraordinary aspect of this profit-driven trend is the
> > invention of questionable new diseases to be cured by expensive drugs to
> > be taken every day, and forever.

> Since people are living longer, they are bound to get a whole new set
> of diseases depending on which bodily part or system fails.

Living longer?! This stuff isn't aimed at old geezers. They want
people who are going to be hooked for years -- many years, especially
addictive-personality types. You must not be following the story.

--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c

#17 05-22-2008, 07:02 PM

In article <03e6d9e0-efb6-4a96-bba8-aedb5a56e624[at]b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <love6[at]thetruth.com> writes:
- quote -

> convicted neighbor Cary Kittrell wrote:
> > retrogrouch[at]comcast.net
> > > Tim Campbell <timcall[at]sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Have you ever used the word "internet" in the company of one of your
> > > > healhcare providers; medical or dental?
> >
> > > LOL. My doctor almost runs screaming form the room when I tell him of
> > > an internet group and what study they've sent me.
> >
> > Try asking him about "black fat" next time.
>
> Your doctor would know it as visceral adipose tissue (VAT):

He would. I do. So does anyone paying attention.

"Black fat", on the other hand, is just another of
your private idiosyncracies.

-- cary

#16 05-22-2008, 01:33 PM

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD was thinking very hard but waffled away as
usual:

- quote -

> > > > Have you ever used the word "internet" in the company of one of your
> > > > healhcare providers; medical or dental?
> > > LOL. My doctor almost runs screaming form the room when I tell him of
> > > an internet group and what study they've sent me.
> >
> > Try asking him about "black fat" next time.
>
> Your doctor would know it as visceral adipose tissue (VAT):

Correct - and it is the right terminology a scientist or doctor would
use to describe it - as it gives us a more accurate picture of the fat
in question.

"Black fat"? Hello? What's that? Who uses that term? Where did you
lift that off from? It does not tell us anything more than the color
of the fat is black -- it does not tell us where this fat can be found
-- hence is absolutely meaningless and irrelevant from a scientific
viewpoint.

#15 05-22-2008, 06:29 AM

convicted neighbor Cary Kittrell wrote:
- quote -

> retrogrouch[at]comcast.net
> > Tim Campbell <timcall[at]sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Have you ever used the word "internet" in the company of one of your
> > > healhcare providers; medical or dental?
>
> > LOL. My doctor almost runs screaming form the room when I tell him of
> > an internet group and what study they've sent me.
>
> Try asking him about "black fat" next time.

Your doctor would know it as visceral adipose tissue (VAT):

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...03d0e503a6f41?

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be healthier...

Marana tha

Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ,

Andrew <> <
--
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...8812d72ab4e17?

#14 05-22-2008, 12:58 AM

On Wed, 21 May 2008 13:54:34 -0700 (PDT), Tim Campbell
<timcall[at]sbcglobal.net> wrote:

- quote -

> Have you ever used the word "internet" in the company of one of your
> healhcare providers; medical or dental?

LOL. My doctor almost runs screaming form the room when I tell him of
an internet group and what study they've sent me.

#13 05-21-2008, 09:54 PM

- quote -

> > > I agree. It's interesting to see "free market companies" routinely seeking to limit consumer access to information.<<<

Interesting, compelling remark you make here Retro.

From the earliest days of human history access to certain, specialized
information in society has been limited to the upper educational /
"caste" levels in most any area; legal, medical, dental, accounting,
engineering.

The Web is intrinsically revolutionary because it provides much of the
previously, privileged information to most levels of society that was
previously only available to the select few.

Have you ever used the word "internet" in the company of one of your
healhcare providers; medical or dental?

#12 05-20-2008, 10:00 PM

On Tue, 20 May 2008 12:06:09 -0600, Pramesh Rutaji
<p297tongue6221[at]newsguy.com> wrote:

- quote -

> retrogrouch[at]comcast.net wrote:
> > On Tue, 20 May 2008 07:02:04 -0700 (PDT), Ron Peterson
> > <ron[at]shell.core.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On May 20, 1:45 am, retrogro...[at]comcast.net wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 19 May 2008 18:49:03 -0700 (PDT), Ron Peterson wrote:
> > > > > Dairies can't label their milk as not coming from cows not treated
> > > > > with rGBH. It seems that government is the one perpetrating the fraud.
> > > > Who lobbied them for that?
> > > That would be Monsanto. They do have a case in that the levels of
> > > rBGH (corrected spelling) aren't raised in the milk of cows that are
> > > treated with the hormone.
> >
> >
> > Yet to get a law that keeps consumers from knowing what they are
> > asking to know . . .
> >
> > And the issue that levels are raised - you have to remember these are
> > compounds that have profound effects in parts per billion.
>
> If consumers want to know and will pay for that information (higher
> prices), then suppliers can formulate their products to provide what the
> consumers is willing to pay for. That's what open/free markets are all
> about. Given a choice between a product that notes that no rBGH was
> used and one that had no such statement, I as a consumer would purchase
> the rBGH free milk. Monsanto doesn't want the consumer to know if their
> product is used or not because some consumers would chose in a way what
> would lower Monsanto's sales. The legal system shouldn't be used to
> prop up business objectives and certainly not at the expense of consumer
> choice.
>
> The issue of detectability of rBGH in the milk is immaterial. The
> unknown other qualities that rBHG influences is what consumers don't
> want to experimental subjects for. Monsanto cannot be relied on to
> provide accuracy on any negative consequences, their choice, but they
> shouldn't be allowed to prevent others from choosing or not choosing to
> take risks to achieve Monsanto's profit objectives.
>
> Label the milk in a way that states that no exogenous rBGH was used in
> it's production. If you don't think "rBGH free" is accurate, then try
> "No Added rBHG", but I think "rBHG free" is accurate since "recombinant"
> is an artificial process.

I agree. It's interesting to see "free market companies" routinely
seeking to limit consumer access to information.

#11 05-20-2008, 07:06 PM

retrogrouch[at]comcast.net wrote:
- quote -

> On Tue, 20 May 2008 07:02:04 -0700 (PDT), Ron Peterson
> <ron[at]shell.core.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 20, 1:45 am, retrogro...[at]comcast.net wrote:
> > > On Mon, 19 May 2008 18:49:03 -0700 (PDT), Ron Peterson wrote:
> > > > Dairies can't label their milk as not coming from cows not treated
> > > > with rGBH. It seems that government is the one perpetrating the fraud.
> > > Who lobbied them for that?
> > That would be Monsanto. They do have a case in that the levels of
> > rBGH (corrected spelling) aren't raised in the milk of cows that are
> > treated with the hormone.
>
>
> Yet to get a law that keeps consumers from knowing what they are
> asking to know . . .
>
> And the issue that levels are raised - you have to remember these are
> compounds that have profound effects in parts per billion.

If consumers want to know and will pay for that information (higher
prices), then suppliers can formulate their products to provide what the
consumers is willing to pay for. That's what open/free markets are all
about. Given a choice between a product that notes that no rBGH was
used and one that had no such statement, I as a consumer would purchase
the rBGH free milk. Monsanto doesn't want the consumer to know if their
product is used or not because some consumers would chose in a way what
would lower Monsanto's sales. The legal system shouldn't be used to
prop up business objectives and certainly not at the expense of consumer
choice.

The issue of detectability of rBGH in the milk is immaterial. The
unknown other qualities that rBHG influences is what consumers don't
want to experimental subjects for. Monsanto cannot be relied on to
provide accuracy on any negative consequences, their choice, but they
shouldn't be allowed to prevent others from choosing or not choosing to
take risks to achieve Monsanto's profit objectives.

Label the milk in a way that states that no exogenous rBGH was used in
it's production. If you don't think "rBGH free" is accurate, then try
"No Added rBHG", but I think "rBHG free" is accurate since "recombinant"
is an artificial process.

--

Pramesh Rutaji

p297tongue6221[at]newsguy.com - remove tongue to reply

#10 05-20-2008, 05:23 PM

On Tue, 20 May 2008 07:02:04 -0700 (PDT), Ron Peterson
<ron[at]shell.core.com> wrote:

- quote -

> On May 20, 1:45 am, retrogro...[at]comcast.net wrote:
> > On Mon, 19 May 2008 18:49:03 -0700 (PDT), Ron Peterson wrote:
>
> > > Dairies can't label their milk as not coming from cows not treated
> > > with rGBH. It seems that government is the one perpetrating the fraud.
>
> > Who lobbied them for that?
>
> That would be Monsanto. They do have a case in that the levels of
> rBGH (corrected spelling) aren't raised in the milk of cows that are
> treated with the hormone.

Yet to get a law that keeps consumers from knowing what they are
asking to know . . .

And the issue that levels are raised - you have to remember these are
compounds that have profound effects in parts per billion.

#9 05-20-2008, 03:02 PM

On May 20, 1:45 am, retrogro...[at]comcast.net wrote:
- quote -

> On Mon, 19 May 2008 18:49:03 -0700 (PDT), Ron Peterson wrote:

> > Dairies can't label their milk as not coming from cows not treated
> > with rGBH. It seems that government is the one perpetrating the fraud.

> Who lobbied them for that?

That would be Monsanto. They do have a case in that the levels of
rBGH (corrected spelling) aren't raised in the milk of cows that are
treated with the hormone.

--
Ron

#8 05-20-2008, 12:39 PM

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD formulated on Tuesday :

<snip>

- quote -

> > Andrew: You must be kidding.
>
> No.

Liar.

- quote -

> > Have you taken your medication recently?
>
> Don't take medications.

.... which would explain your current mental state.

#7 05-20-2008, 07:45 AM

On Mon, 19 May 2008 18:49:03 -0700 (PDT), Ron Peterson
<ron[at]shell.core.com> wrote:

- quote -

> On May 19, 6:53*pm, retrogro...[at]comcast.net wrote:
> > On Mon, 19 May 2008 16:49:24 -0700 (PDT), Ron Peterson wrote:
>
> > > Somehow, I worry when government starts dictating what people can and
> > > can't say.
>
> > It really interferes with fraud and con men.
>
> Dairies can't label their milk as not coming from cows not treated
> with rGBH. It seems that government is the one perpetrating the fraud.

Who lobbied them for that?

#6 05-20-2008, 03:22 AM

satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted:
- quote -

> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > Marshall Price wrote:
> > > Tim Campbell wrote:
> > > > Do Pharmaceutical Commercials Benefit Americans?
> >
> > > > On this week�s JOURNAL, Bill Moyers spoke with Melody Petersen, an
> > > > independent journalist who formerly covered the drug industry for the
> > > > NEW YORK TIMES and is author of OUR DAILY MEDS: HOW THE PHARMACEUTICAL
> > > > COMPANIES TRANSFORMED THEMSELVES INTO SLICK MARKETING MACHINES AND
> > > > HOOKED THE NATION ON PRESCRIPTION DRUGS.
> > > > Addressing how advertising and marketing have affected the
> > > > prescription drug business, Petersen said:
> >
> > > > �A very powerful technique that the drug companies spend millions and
> > > > millions of dollars on is hiring physicians to give lectures to other
> > > > physicians on their drugs. It looks like the physician is up there
> > > > giving his independent position on this drug, but often he�sbeen
> > > > trained by an advertising agency. His slide presentation has been
> > > > created by an ad agency. It looks like independent science, but it�s
> > > > not... They want to get as many articles published in our medical
> > > > journals as they can that show their products in favorable lights and
> > > > will get physicians to prescribe them, so they often hire a Madison
> > > > Avenue ad agency to write up an article for them or a study. The name
> > > > of the ad agency rarely appears in the published version; instead,
> > > > they hire doctors to put their names on as author... It�s gone so far
> > > > that some independent scientists are starting to view our medical
> > > > literature as propaganda.�
> >
> > > > Others, including the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), argue
> > > > that �direct to consumer� ads help educate and engage prospective
> > > > patients about their healthcare options.
> >
> > > > http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/blog/
> >
> > > Yes, it is indeed scandalous. Only the USA and New Zealand permit
> > > direct-to-consumer advertising of prescription drugs, and the long lists
> > > of warnings such commercials include are glossed over so quickly and in
> > > such a low-key tenor that "consumers" don't get a chance to consider
> > > them carefully.
> >
> > > But the most extraordinary aspect of this profit-driven trend is the
> > > invention of questionable new diseases to be cured by expensive drugs to
> > > be taken every day, and forever.
> >
> > The love of money is at the root of all evil.
> >
> > The love of LORD Jesus Christ is at the cure.
>
> Andrew: You must be kidding.

No.

- quote -

> Have you taken your medication recently?

Don't take medications.

In my ever closer walk with LORD Jesus Christ, HE has been keeping me
completely well.

Laus Deo ! ! !

May we, who are Jesus' disciples, continue to rebuke you at each GOD-
given opportunity as GOD desires:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...3b88286afc5bd?

<> <

May dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a blessedly wonderful
2008th year since the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ as the Son of
Man ...

... by being hungrier:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...1e617d10bd689?

Hunger is wonderful ! ! !

It's how we know what GOD desires, which is what is good.

Yes, hunger is our knowledge of good versus evil that Adam and Eve
paid for with their and our immortal lives.

"Blessed are you who hunger NOW...

... for you will be satisfied." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21)

Amen.

Here is a Spirit-guided exegesis of Luke 6:21 given in hopes of
promoting much greater understanding:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...aa8f8a4d41360?

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be healthier...

Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ,

Andrew <> <
--
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...8812d72ab4e17?

#5 05-20-2008, 02:49 AM

On May 19, 6:53*pm, retrogro...[at]comcast.net wrote:
- quote -

> On Mon, 19 May 2008 16:49:24 -0700 (PDT), Ron Peterson wrote:

> > Somehow, I worry when government starts dictating what people can and
> > can't say.

> It really interferes with fraud and con men.

Dairies can't label their milk as not coming from cows not treated
with rGBH. It seems that government is the one perpetrating the fraud.

--
Ron

#4 05-20-2008, 12:53 AM

On Mon, 19 May 2008 16:49:24 -0700 (PDT), Ron Peterson
<ron[at]shell.core.com> wrote:

- quote -

> On May 18, 1:49*am, Marshall Price <d0213...[at]yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > * *Yes, it is indeed scandalous. *Only the USA and New Zealand permit
> > direct-to-consumer advertising of prescription drugs, and the long lists
> > of warnings such commercials include are glossed over so quickly and in
> > such a low-key tenor that "consumers" don't get a chance to consider
> > them carefully.
>
> Somehow, I worry when government starts dictating what people can and
> can't say.

It really interferes with fraud and con men.

#3 05-20-2008, 12:49 AM

On May 18, 1:49*am, Marshall Price <d0213...[at]yahoo.com> wrote:

- quote -

> * *Yes, it is indeed scandalous. *Only the USA and New Zealand permit
> direct-to-consumer advertising of prescription drugs, and the long lists
> of warnings such commercials include are glossed over so quickly and in
> such a low-key tenor that "consumers" don't get a chance to consider
> them carefully.

Somehow, I worry when government starts dictating what people can and
can't say.

- quote -

> * *But the most extraordinary aspect of this profit-driven trend is the
> invention of questionable new diseases to be cured by expensive drugs to
> be taken every day, and forever.

Since people are living longer, they are bound to get a whole new set
of diseases depending on which bodily part or system fails.

--
Ron

#2 05-19-2008, 11:03 PM

On May 18, 2:36 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lo...[at]thetruth.com>
wrote:
- quote -

> Marshall Price wrote:
> > Tim Campbell wrote:
> > > Do Pharmaceutical Commercials Benefit Americans?
>
> > > On this week�s JOURNAL, Bill Moyers spoke with Melody Petersen, an
> > > independent journalist who formerly covered the drug industry for the
> > > NEW YORK TIMES and is author of OUR DAILY MEDS: HOW THE PHARMACEUTICAL
> > > COMPANIES TRANSFORMED THEMSELVES INTO SLICK MARKETING MACHINES AND
> > > HOOKED THE NATION ON PRESCRIPTION DRUGS.
> > > Addressing how advertising and marketing have affected the
> > > prescription drug business, Petersen said:
>
> > > �A very powerful technique that the drug companies spend millions and
> > > millions of dollars on is hiring physicians to give lectures to other
> > > physicians on their drugs. It looks like the physician is up there
> > > giving his independent position on this drug, but often he�s been
> > > trained by an advertising agency. His slide presentation has been
> > > created by an ad agency. It looks like independent science, but it�s
> > > not... They want to get as many articles published in our medical
> > > journals as they can that show their products in favorable lights and
> > > will get physicians to prescribe them, so they often hire a Madison
> > > Avenue ad agency to write up an article for them or a study. The name
> > > of the ad agency rarely appears in the published version; instead,
> > > they hire doctors to put their names on as author... It�s goneso far
> > > that some independent scientists are starting to view our medical
> > > literature as propaganda.�
>
> > > Others, including the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), argue
> > > that �direct to consumer� ads help educate and engage prospective
> > > patients about their healthcare options.
>
> > > http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/blog/
>
> > Yes, it is indeed scandalous. Only the USA and New Zealand permit
> > direct-to-consumer advertising of prescription drugs, and the long lists
> > of warnings such commercials include are glossed over so quickly and in
> > such a low-key tenor that "consumers" don't get a chance to consider
> > them carefully.
>
> > But the most extraordinary aspect of this profit-driven trend is the
> > invention of questionable new diseases to be cured by expensive drugs to
> > be taken every day, and forever.
>
> The love of money is at the root of all evil.
>
> The love of LORD Jesus Christ is at the cure.
>
> Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be healthier...
>
> Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ,
>
> Andrew <> <
> --http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3558812d72ab4e17?

Andrew: You must be kidding. Have you taken your medication recently?

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